So after I created the med school thread, I asked myself, "What else are we missing??" And I figured it out! Grad school!

So for everyone who has questions and/or answers about grad school, please help your fellow soompiers out

Has anyone taken the new GREs yet? On average, how much time should we devote to studying for the GREs? Are those classes (from Kaplan for example) effective at all? I plan to go to grad school in Fall of 2008 and am so anxious about everything right now!

Well, Kaplan courses are supposed to be pretty useful.. although my friend took it and didn't do very well. It wasn't Kaplan's problem, it was because of his weakness in essay writing. He spent about 3 months, and most people I know take about 3 months to study, but give or take, you know?

Hmm I really want to do well on the GREs because my GPA is not as high as I would like it to be... I'm planning to go to a grad school in the US for Communication (and choose a non-thesis option). By the way, are you in grad school right now? It's kind of scary for me because I don't have a clear vision of what I want to- I just have a very general idea. Any Communication majors here on soompi? =)

haha..no, what I know about the GRE comes from my friends who've taken it, and also I work in a couple of labs, so I learn about GRE stuff from grad students as well..

Preparing for the GRE is just like preparing for the SATs.
I think those Barron's study books -- the ones published by Kaplan even -- should suffice in preparing you for the exam.

Most grad schools, I believe, require a minimum GPA of 3.0 up to 3.5 for more competitive programs. So as long as your GPA falls within that range, you should be fine.

and also, if you don't have a good GPA, it would really really help if you're able to get a grant first.

What do you mean? That grad schools would look at my application more favorably if I receive some sort of grant for a research project or something? Would this still be the case for non-thesis programs at grad school?

Ah..sorry. For thesis-based programs, grants can make a difference; but I'm not sure about non-thesis programs.. I'm more familiar with thesis-based programs. Which ones are you planning on applying to?

don't forget the recommendation letters in addition to exam scores, plus the personal statement which does carry some weight

For sciences (and the humanities as well) in the U.S. it is rare for applicants to get external funding before entering a program. If the department or school thinks you are worth admitting, they will provide funding for you in some form. If they don't, but are in need of people who are willing to pay and be a source of $ for the program, they may admit you to a second tier (for example, M.A. programs).

So I saw this interesting threa and decided to post!

As for the GRE...I didn't spend too much time on it because I personally didn't feel the need to. It is the same as any other test, just study and prepare as much as you feel you need it. Don't bother with what people tell you. Really, just know yourself, your own study habits and your own limits.

Also, don't try to apply for out of reach programs. Just know yourself and your own limits, it'll save you a lot of time, energy and misery. Not to sound pessimistic or anything

I'm currently attending grad school at MIT, so I've been through all that....grad school and college misery XD

GRE is kinda a pain last time I took it all these years of college has untaught me arithmetics so math w/o a calculator was kinda hellish plus you can't go back to a previous question, that bugs me the most.

Some schools require a minimum GRE score on each part, some schools (like MIT) say they don't have a minimum bar, but "just know that most applicants have an 800 in math anyway", and then there are other schools (like UCSD) who concentrate more on your GPA than your GRE scores because "you can always have a bad day of test taking"
(quote unquotes are from the real admins I've talked to)

getting into a Master's program is like getting into an undergrad one, just get your application in basically. but getting into a PhD program is more complicated. you get a series of phone interviews, real interviews, tests, and other screening stuff.

>_< the never ending school life

Cool, great tips! I plan to go to grad school in Communications.. some schools I've been considering are USC, Boston Univ, Syracuse, Emerson etc.... My GPA is not super high (it's between 3.0 and 3.5) so I hope this won't hurt my chances of getting in.... I really hope to do well on the GREs for this reason too.

What are you studying at MIT? Something related to Science I assume?
I'm from Canada so if I were to apply to grad schools in the US (which I plan to do) I will be applying as an international student... I am not sure whether or not being from Canada would increase or decrease my chances of admission compared to American students.. hahaha it's just something I've always wondered. Oh also, does anyone know how important one's undergrad institution (ie. where they went to college) is for grad school admission?

what's the difference between graduate school and applying to a M.A. program?

and what's the difference between going the non-thesis and thesis route?

I'm a junior in college and I was thinking of applying for a M.A. program in English.

M.A. program is still considered a graduate program. The question is whether you want to stop at a M.A. or if you want to go for a Ph.D.

As for thesis or non-thesis -- one is usually allowed to substitute the thesis in place of coursework, so if you don't do the thesis, you'll have to take some classes in place of it.

^thanks a lot for the response.

i probably would want to get an M.A. and then get a pH.D. I think there is a way to get into a pH.D program instead of going the M.A. route, right?

also check and see if your school accepts MAT (Miller Analogies Test) scores in lieu of GRE scores. 120 questions, analogies.

Yes, there are schools that accept students directly into the PhD program--along the way students fulfill the requirements for a M.A.

I heard that you can take a test or do a thesis for the class right?
Do you know how much it costs on average for someone who wants to get a M.A's?

Not really--my guess is that it's not cheap, and that's why I discourage people from going for a M.A.

thank you so much for answering my questions again.
in general, how much does graduate school cost? is it more than undergraduate?

I want to get away from writing a thesis, so I'm 90% sure i'm taking the non-thesis route.

I do want to go to the pH.D program right away, but it's so competitive, especially when it comes to English. My school accepts 1 out of 4 students into their phd program.

It varies widely, I suspect, from private to public [for the latter, for resident and non-resident], so it would be best to check the schools that you are interested in--the amount of tuition should be listed plainly.

As I've said, I don't know of any M.A. students who are guaranteed funding, though there may be scholarships and such for those who are qualified. (Usually not academic scholarships, but scholarships for people interested in a certain area, or minority groups, etc.)

Also, be aware that the job market is saturated with candidates--there are more candidates than positions available, so this is something to consider before you devote time, money, and energy into becoming an academic.

Well, that would greatly depend on the field you are trying to enter. Academia, as you mentioned, is saturated with candidates. There are many people who obtained a PhD in a top 5 school, only to teach for a very lowly ranked school. In some fields, obtaining a M.A. or PhD is pretty much a requirement. I'm in electrical engineering, and practically every job that I look to apply for (after I receive my B.A.) requires a M.A. with years of experience. Ouch!

I notice that your location is Boston. Are you going to grad school somewhere in Boston?

is there anyone currently doing/completed PhD and would like to share their experience so far? like is it really hard work and you have no social life (so i've heard '')? or you find it really is rewarding?
i'm currently contemplating whether i should go on to do PhD ~ i'm in my 4th year of science course. i'm not really a studying type of person but i heard that you get opportunities to travel all over the world...but somehow i don't think that's a very wise reason to choose to do PhD.

I'm not sure I understand what you're hoping to do. You want a PhD but you don't want to write a thesis? Are there any PhD programs that don't require one?

There are some graduate (MA) programs that are more practical and do not require students to write a thesis. I am not sure about PhD though.. I somehow doubt it though.

On a side note, how should I approach asking professors/employers for letters of recommendation? If I am applying to, say 7 schools, should I describe to them or print out the progams for each individual school and would they write 7 separate letters tailored to each school? Any tips on reference letter etiqutte? (Especially if you have not taken a course with a particular prof in a few semesters/years).

I actually work for Kaplan and taught the CAHSEE exam...
those books were useful and from wat i see
Kaplan will be able to teach u the necessary skills to conquer the test if u use it
too bad i didnt teach or took the GRE since i do get them for free or at a discount =/

GRE is dependent on yourself
i took the computerized version and the FIRST 5 PROBLEM is most important
it determines what scores you start at
if you get one wrong it lowers your score and you get easier questions
if you see harder and harder questions, it mean your doing well

~Wilson

Yes.



What kind of opportunities? If you mean opportunities to present papers, go to conferences, and so on, sure, but you need to get a reputation, do research and publish in order to get a reputation...

I didn't know they called it a B.A. or M.A. for a electrical engineering degree. I guess it differs by the school.

Bachelor's and Master's are two different levels. What might differ is the "school" from which one receives the degree: B.A. (arts) versus B.S. (sciences) or something else...

When I was applying to graduate school, I had no trouble getting letters of recommendations from my professors. I just went up to professors that I had a couple of classes with and asked if they could write some letters of recommendations for me. All of them said they wouldn't mind and asked me to bring them some supplemental materials, like transcripts, resume, and personal statement, so they could personalize the letters.

The important thing to remember is to make it as simple as you can for your professors. Like have the forms printed out and fill in the parts that you can do, like your name, program and stuff like that. Also, with the forms give them envelopes with the addresses printed on them and with a stamps on it. Finally, have like a paper with the names of the schools you are applying to and the dates the letters need to be sent out to the school. As the deadline for a letter gets closer, email or talk to your professors thanking them for write the letter for you and asking if they have sent it out yet. Professors are busy and sometimes they might forget, so you'll need to remind them.

Some more questions about the GREs:

I am planning to apply for admission to grad schools for the Fall 2008 semester. When do you think is the best time to take the test? I am planning to go to Korea for an internship once I graduate this June, probably until the end of the year, so there is a chance I will take the exam in Korea (even know I am not a Korean citizen; I'd be applying as a Canadian). Is this okay?
Also, how long does it take to receive your GRE scores after you have taken them?? Can I, for example, take the GREs in December, and then apply to schools in January? Would the schools know my GRE scores before I do?

Well you have to take your GRE's before december since most deadlines are Jan 1.

I would take it whenever your ready, but study ahead of time. Since you can take it anytime.
Since it's on the computer you get your score as soon as your done. And you can take it as long as your state test center center offers it, mine offers it mostly everyday.

For the GRE, math and verbal scores come out immediately. but the writing portion will be mailed to you shortly after (like 2 weeks maybe?). since it costs like $130, I suggest you prep well so you'll get a satisfactory score and not waste your money. it's not hard at all, but it's like the SAT so the more familiar with the questions, the better you'll be.

When I first decided that I wanted to go to graduate school, I immediately went out to purchase books on the subject. Actually, I only bought one book, but if you were to buy just one book, you must absolutely get:

Graduate School: Winning Strategies for Getting in With or Without Excellent Grades by Dave G. Mumby

Now, the book does a good job of distinguishing the fact that you do need excellent grades in order to get into a top-tier graduate school (as expected), but the book also does a wonderful job of presenting you insightful information on the process of winning a seat in graduate school. You do not need excellent grades in order to get into a graduate school (of course, you must meet the requirements for most programs, which are usually 3.0 GPA or higher).

The strategies that the author presents are wonderful. I read the entire book in less than two or three days, but it is one of those books you constantly refer to as the process of getting into graduate school may a lengthy one (which is kind of expected if you are trying to position yourself for the greatest possible chance of getting into the school of your choice).


So, what schools are you all aiming for, and what field would you all like to study?

As of right now, the two schools that I am considering are Stanford University and Tufts University, and I want to study electrical engineering (more specifically, analog/mixed-system designing). I told myself that I would only go to Tufts if they give me some kind of scholarship, but I would donate a kidney to get into Stanford!

i'm doing a phd right now and all i can say is yeah..it's a hard work +_+ but it doesn't mean you hv no life o.o time managing is a must since you will get like 98094850349589 thingies to do at the same time x_X and one of my prof. said it's not like your undergrad time that it's o.k. if you know only 'what' but in grad school, you hv to know more i.e. know 'why' and 'how'. hm..is it rewarding? it depends on what you want from a phd ^^

I can't believe I'm a senior in college and that I'm graduating in two months...

Even though I am going to teach English in Korea for a year, I'm still stressing out about what to do for grad school. I *definitely* have to go, because I just have a BA in English Lit/Lang. While I still would love to do film school, I don't have experience at all, really. So getting an MFA in creative writing is seeming really appealing, but I don't know anyone who's done it. I have no idea if I have a snowball's chance in hell to get into one of the top 10 US programs....


arg.

-ginger

any one applying for a master's degree in the UK?

you're teaching English in Korea? wow, I would love to talk to you about this b/c I want to teach English in Korea too. Most of the websites I looked at required you to be a native English speaker, and I'm not.

You can apply for a M.A. in creative writing, and I know that you write a book for your thesis (or maybe take classes).

umm, how long is graduate school?

it depends on what/which one you learn and in which country ^^;;
in general, it takes 1-2 years for master and 3-5 years for a ph.d. in uk/aus.
in us, 3 for master and 3-5 for a ph.d. or longer
because there's no lecture/class to take in uk/aus, you can start doing your research a.k.a thesis/dissertation out there but in us, you hv to take classes first..that's all i know ><;; correct me if i'm wrong...btw, it's for science thingies >.> i don't know much about the others >< sorry

Im planning to go to graduate school for M.A. in English and most of the schools i've talked to looks the most at the writing sample and then gpa and gre. I plan on pursuing academia and I know how competitive it is but does anyone know if its easier to be a professor at a university in korea? Thats what i sorta wanna do. Anyways, for other english majors out there who plan on going to grad school, what schools are you looking at?

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0417,kamenetz,53011,1.html

Generation Debt
Wanted: Really Smart Suckers
Grad school provides exciting new road to poverty
by Anya Kamenetz
April 27th, 2004 10:10 AM

Here's an exciting career opportunity you won't see in the classified ads. For the first six to 10 years, it pays less than $20,000 and demands superhuman levels of commitment in a Dickensian environment. Forget about marriage, a mortgage, or even Thanksgiving dinners, as the focus of your entire life narrows to the production, to exacting specifications, of a 300-page document less than a dozen people will read. Then it's time for advancement: Apply to 50 far-flung, undesirable locations, with a 30 to 40 percent chance of being offered any position at all. You may end up living 100 miles from your spouse and commuting to three different work locations a week. You may end up $50,000 in debt, with no health insurance, feeding your kids with food stamps. If you are the luckiest out of every five entrants, you may win the profession's ultimate prize: A comfortable middle-class job, for the rest of your life, with summers off.
Welcome to the world of the humanities Ph.D. student, 2004, where promises mean little and revolt is in the air. In the past week, Columbia's graduate teaching assistants went on strike and temporary, or adjunct, faculty at New York University narrowly avoided one. Columbia's Graduate Student Employees United seeks recognition, over the administration's appeals, of a two-year-old vote that would make it the second officially recognized union at a private university. NYU's adjuncts, who won their union in 2002, reached an eleventh-hour agreement for health care and office space, among other amenities.

Grad students have always resigned themselves to relative poverty in anticipation of a cushy, tenured payoff. But in the past decade, the rules of the game have changed. Budget pressures have spurred universities' increasing dependence on so-called "casual labor," which damages both the working conditions of graduate students and their job prospects. Over half of the classroom time at major universities is now logged by non-tenure-track teachers, both graduate teaching assistants—known as TAs—and adjuncts. At community colleges, part-timers make up 60 percent of the faculties.

Average teaching loads for grad students have increased, while benefits are often cut off after five years. Humanities TAs are paid stipends ranging from less than $10,000 at a public school like SUNY-Buffalo to $18,000 at unionized NYU. Adjuncts, more and more likely to be recent post-docs who couldn't find a better position, earn less than $3,000 a course—usually without benefits, and far less than the $60,000 yearly national average for full-time professors. Meanwhile, the debt burden has grown: The average holder of a graduate degree spends 13.5 percent of his or her income paying back loans (eight percent is considered manageable). Fifty-three percent of those holding master's degrees, 63 percent of those holding doctorates, and 69 percent of those holding professional degrees are over $30,000 in debt. If they end up as "marginal employees," the academic freedom and security of tenure is replaced by a constant anxiety and alienation.

But the Internet means no isolated community has to stay that way. A new group of tortured, funny, largely anonymous websites are providing an outlet for academics who feel like they're getting spanked by their alma mater. They have names like Invisible Adjunct, (a)musings of a grad student, Beyond Academe, and Barely Tenured, and they address the emotional just as much as the practical consequences of competing in, and losing, the academic job-market lottery.

Founded in February 2003, Invisible Adjunct quickly became one of the most popular such blogs. Dozens of regular posters followed discussion threads like "The Old Boy Network" and "Is Tenure a Cartel?" Invisible Adjunct's author—call her IA—is a New Yorker in her late thirties with a Ph.D. in British history, an adjunct for the past two years. "I've spent all these years and I've failed," says IA, who entered graduate school in 1993 and received her Ph.D. in 1999. "You agree to do this five-to-seven-year low-paid apprenticeship because you're joining this guild. And if you end up as an adjunct you think, wow, I'm really getting screwed over."

The also pseudonymous Thomas H. Benton was a frequent contributor to Invisible Adjunct's blog and has penned a series of cautionary columns for the Chronicle of Higher Education. He is even more blunt than IA. "The premise of graduate education in the humanities is a lie: Students are not apprentices preparing for a life of scholarship and teaching," he says. "They are a cheap source of labor and status for institutions and faculty and, after they earn their degrees, most join the reserve army of the academic underemployed." Benton, a professor at a small liberal arts college, warns his students about trying to follow in his footsteps. "My experience as a working-class kid who finally earned an Ivy League Ph.D. is that higher education is not about social mobility or personal enrichment; it is one trap among many for people who are uninitiated into the way power and influence operate in this culture."



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Grad school applications are up slightly over the last decade, as unemployed college grads seek a haven from the job market. Every winter, a new crop of bright, bookish, maybe slightly fuzzy-headed kids, the kind who cover the sidewalks of the Lower East Side and Williamsburg, decide they're sick enough of the 9-to-5 grind to borrow some money and go back to school.

Unlike trade schools, most graduate programs do not offer prospective students detailed data on job placement, which varies widely from program to program. Tri-State Semi Driver Training School in Middletown, Ohio, for example, guarantees a job before you even start driving, while the American Language Institute in San Diego promises lifetime placement assistance to its teachers of English as a foreign language. Your local Ivy League English department can't offer the same deal: Last year, the Modern Language Association expected some 965 Ph.D.'s to be granted, while only 422 assistant professorships were advertised, a drop of 20 percent from the year before. In the foreign languages, there were only 263 positions advertised (for the 620 Ph.D.'s projected), a drop of one-third from the previous year. The MLA estimates that students who entered English programs in 2003 had a 20 percent chance of coming out with a tenure-track position. The situation is better in history, where the number of new Ph.D.'s in 2003 almost equalled the number of new jobs, after a decade of "overproduction," with growth coming in trendy specializations like the Middle East.

But numbers like these do little to deter the best students. "Top undergraduates are arrogant; they lack perspective," says Benton. "They've been fawned over all their lives, and they think grad school is there to help them realize their potential, not to use them up and toss them out."

Dan Friedman completed a Ph.D. in comparative literature from Yale University this spring after 10 years. He now teaches at a private high school in New Jersey, making twice the $25,000 he was offered as a university part-timer. He says that as a TA back at Yale, he tried to warn his favorite students. "I've had a few bright students, majors, who are often interested in carrying on and I've said to all of them, 'Don't do it.' I really wanted them to stop and think. And without exception, they thought I was joking. Only one of them came back to me—she ended up at NYU—and said, 'Now I know what you were talking about.'" Friedman says, however, that he isn't sure he would have taken his own advice back then. "I didn't know what I was getting into. It would have been different if I had known. You're committed to your subject and you think, I want to study literature. You don't think of yourself as a 40-year-old trying to support a family."

As a scholar of contemporary theory, Friedman quotes a cultural critic's perspective on the economic impact of the love of learning. "As graduate students get more and more exploited, people believe in it more and do it despite the difficulty." He refers to the 2001 book The Invisible Heart by feminist economist Nancy Folbre, which describes how the work that is most important to a society tends to be the most undervalued. "Teachers, nurses, people who do things they really care about, get shafted."

Devotion to the academic world, however, is not necessarily healthy. "People develop this identity," says IA. "They say, 'This intellectual work is who I am.' And it's hard to give that up. Even though there are two jobs in your field this year and 300 candidates, it still feels like you've failed."



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Ironically, defining herself as essentially an academic cuts off the humanities Ph.D. student's best shot at making a decent living: a job outside the academy. Last year, Alexandra Lord and Julie Taddeo created the website Beyond Academe, whose purpose is to profile history Ph.D.'s, like themselves, who've found satisfactory employment while still practicing their discipline—with museums, nonprofit foundations, government agencies, or as researchers for companies.

"I've been stunned by what people have said at some of the blog sites," Lord says. "They seem to believe that working as an adjunct and earning $19,000 and having no health insurance is preferable to working outside the academy. I think this prejudice is even stronger with people in grad school now than it is among older faculty." For her own part, Lord has no regrets. "I was a single New York woman teaching in a small rural town in Montana. I could go days without speaking to my colleagues, and all my social contact was with 18- to 20-year-olds. I felt that I had sacrificed my personal life for a professional career and I didn't see a reward." Now a public historian in Washington, D.C., Lord has peers she can talk to and makes $37,000 more than she did as a tenure-track professor.

The Invisible Adjunct is herself headed beyond academe. After making a final pass at the academic job market, she is leaving the academy, and her blog, behind this spring. "I'm finishing up my semester of teaching and then I'm just going to have to figure out what my next move should be."

Like Lord, Friedman has no regrets at leaving the ivy-covered walls. He currently teaches literature and an interdisciplinary seminar to high school freshmen four days a week and coaches soccer. "The best phrase I've heard for us is the intellectual lumpenproletariat," he says, using the Marxist term for the ground-down members of the underclass who lack the class consciousness for revolt. "If something happened to empower those people, there would be an incredible efflorescence of culture in this country, because there's more of them now than there ever has been. But they are too busy scuttling around getting shitty jobs."

does anyone have any info on grad school for nursing?

how hard is it to get into a grad school? Does anybody know the number of students a school accepts?

I'm so worried about not getting into a grad school.

It depends on the grad program and school. With respect to PhD candidates in the Humanities, usually not more than 10 (for a program), and possibly as low as 3 or 4.

Why are you so set on going to grad school?

I still have two years to think about this but it seems grad school is more of a "must" for people like me who are doing their BSc. Some people have told me to take a "time out" after my BSc and work for a year or two as an intern to see if they even like my field. After gaining some experience, then I should attempt to go into grad school to gain better qualifications and be able to be more competitive in jobs. I feel if I start doing all of this, I won't be out of school until I'm 30! (i'm 21 at the moment with 2 years left to complete my bachelors in Biotechnology).
What do you guys think? Anyone here have any experience related to Biotech (MSc or PhD)?
All I really want to do is get into the genetic engineering side of Biotech. Is that so much to ask Too bad the closest undergrad programme we have here at UofT (Canada) is biomedical engineering which just isn't the same.

^ I took this class of biotech last year >_> "Recombinant DNA Technology" and I got confused at the first day in that class @_@ considering my background was chemistry and chemistry o.O lol but it's super interesting and fun anyway ^^ but I got B from that class T_T and I think computer skill is a must o.o since they use comp program for designing a primer& plasmids, gene mapping or whatever +_+ oh it's the class for grad student, btw.
and don't worry ^^ you can do the genetic engineering in grad school. my suggestion, it's not a good reason to further study just because you just wanna stay in school >.> my friends chose to work instead of further their study and they did make a lot of money from that *-* even if I can make more money than them when I graduate in the next few years but it's like I start working with zero experience >< plus o.o you study like hell in grad school T_T
good luck~!

^in terms of job prospects, do you know of friends that have actually been able to find work in biotech related fields and with what kind of salary? I was pretty much dead set in furthering my education in biotech because i found a lot of the stuff pretty interesting. After talking to the career centre at my university though, they kind of gave me the impression that there are barely any jobs in this field and I'd probably have to move to the US if I wanted to have a chance at landing a job in biotech. I'm Canadian btw.
When I told the guy there that I wished to go into something like genetic engineering he laughed and was like 'good luck landing a job with that. Countries are too busy making bombs to bother putting research funds into something like that'.
This makes me want to reconsider going to grad school at all or even staying in the field I'm aiming towards. It makes me want to concentrate more on perhaps getting into a med school overseas and landing that 'stable doctor career' that everyone keeps talking about. That's probably the only thing that would make my dad happy too lol, since he's asian