IMAJynXed1
Dec 13 2007, 11:49 AM
theres a list going around right now, and the official list should be announced 1Pm eastern time...but of the list I saw there were a few Red Sox current/ex players on there, even high level ones...Current: Jason Varitek & Julian Tavarez; EX: Johnny Damon, Nomar Garciaparra, Trot Nixon, Eric Gange, Jose Conseco (of course), Yankee's Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte and Giambi also named...
there are alot of big names on there...some not that much of a surprise, but Varitek!...made me sad
kokopuff!
Dec 13 2007, 03:00 PM
Eric Gagne, Jason Giambi, Troy Glaus, Gary Matthews Jr., Jose Guillen, Brian Roberts, Paul Lo Duca and Rick Ankiel
kevin brown, fernando vina, matt herges, brandon donnely, matt williams.
surprisingly no arod...
whoa if u read the actual report, u see receipts and everything...
jojoboy4
Dec 13 2007, 05:06 PM
Here's the entire list of names for those who's interested:
NEW NAMESChad Allen
Mike Bell
Gary Bennett
Larry Bigbie
Kevin Brown
Alex Cabrera
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Matt Franco
Eric Gagne
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Todd Hundley
Mike Judd
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Jim Parque
Luis Perez
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Armando Rios
Brian Roberts
F.P. Santangelo
Mike Stanton
Ricky Stone
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun
PREVIOUSLY LINKEDManny Alexander
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Ricky Bones
Paul Byrd
Ken Caminiti
Jose Canseco
Paxton Crawford
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Ryan Franklin
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Juan Gonzalez
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Darren Holmes
Ryan Jorgensen
Wally Joyner
Gary Matthews Jr.
Rafael Palmeiro
John Rocker
Benito Santiago
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Gary Sheffield
Derrick Turnbow
Randy Velarde
Matt Williams
source:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=An5E...o&type=lgns
edward1849
Dec 13 2007, 08:13 PM
McGwire and Sosa's name not there?
IMAJynXed1
Dec 13 2007, 10:18 PM
im glad that list i saw wasnt true!!
not to many big names on there, the usual suspects are there...yea but no mcguire and sosa? i think mitchell needs to spend another 2 years and come back with a report with those 2 on there, cuz there's not way they weren't juice guy.
and HA! Yankees suck!
joonage
Dec 15 2007, 03:41 PM
For some reason, I just feel like the list is fabricated ... iono ...
Maybe I'm just in denial ...
x-factor
Dec 15 2007, 05:27 PM
This is clearly rigged.. Mitchell also serves as a Director in the front office for the Boston Red Sox, no?
Kit_Starter
Dec 16 2007, 11:15 AM
QUOTE (edward1849 @ Dec 13 2007, 08:13 PM)

McGwire and Sosa's name not there?
Sosa is the one who used the corked bat, not related. Unless you have some kind of inside information.
Not sure about McGwire though. I guess he was clean after all?
leechanghoon01
Dec 16 2007, 04:13 PM
if anybody followed mlb since the late 80's its not surprising at all. i remember barry bonds and bobby bonnilla since the "pittsburgh pirates" days. bonds was skinny as shi. canseco and mcgwire on the "a's', skinny as shi. back then, i remember frank thomas from the white sox was the only monster those days. not surprising at all.......respect to ichiro, kim, griffey jr., and all the tiny ones who are/were making it w/o it.
and i don't understand why dhea is such a big deal. you can get that over the counter at your local GNC.
oh yeah. david justice and keving brown!! they musta had some bunk steroids. haha, they didn't get any bigger then their earlier days
x-factor
Dec 16 2007, 05:47 PM
QUOTE (Kit_Starter @ Dec 16 2007, 12:15 PM)

Sosa is the one who used the corked bat, not related. Unless you have some kind of inside information.
Not sure about McGwire though. I guess he was clean after all?
McGwire admitted to taking androstenedione which is allowed in the MLB, but banned in the NFL and International Olympic Committee.
Jose Canseco's the **** that wrote his autobiography and listed McGwire and others as a juicer.
kimchee2go
Dec 17 2007, 12:58 AM
QUOTE (joonage @ Dec 15 2007, 01:41 PM)

For some reason, I just feel like the list is fabricated ... iono ...
Maybe I'm just in denial ...
no red sox players..
mofo
Dec 17 2007, 12:58 AM
^
roger clemons used to be a red sox player.
i'm glad a-rod and sosa weren't on that list.
baseball is in a very bad spot right now.
IMAJynXed1
Dec 17 2007, 04:55 AM
QUOTE (kimchee2go @ Dec 17 2007, 01:58 AM)

no red sox players..

there are ex players, like Clemens and Canseco and just as recent as the 2007 team with Eric Gange and Brendan Donnelly), but none that are currently still on the team...
kokopuff!
Dec 17 2007, 07:23 AM
i think instead of focusing on the integrity of Mitchell, how about we question the integrity of the players.
when petite said he used it just for 2 days during the time he was injured, im convinced. his numbers were never overwhelming but consistent through out his career.
epark1281
Dec 17 2007, 07:54 AM
QUOTE (kimchee2go @ Dec 17 2007, 01:58 AM)

no red sox players..

isn't it convenient then, that Mitchell was part of the Red Sox organization previously?
kokopuff!
Dec 17 2007, 08:02 AM
how? theres no current dodgers players on it either. doesnt mean he was pulling strings for the dodgers players.
x-factor
Dec 17 2007, 04:23 PM
1. Mitchell is still part of the Red Sox organization; therefore there is obvious reasons for conflicts of interest.
2. The list appears already shady, we have no choice but to question its validity from Mitchell due to some gaps and point number one that I made.
3. Mitchell doesn't help govern the Dodgers. He does for the Red Sox though so conflict of interest...
res0nate
Dec 18 2007, 12:31 AM
I'm disappointed that A-Rod isn't on the list.
Got paid
epark1281
Dec 18 2007, 10:27 AM
QUOTE (res0nate @ Dec 18 2007, 01:31 AM)

I'm disappointed that A-Rod isn't on the list.
Got paid
you know,
just because a lot of good players were on the list, doesn't mean that ALL good players are on roids. I still hold on to the idea that there are still Good players who hone their skills and discipline themselves, and THAT'S why they are good, not because of roids or HGH.
kokopuff!
Dec 18 2007, 01:50 PM
you guys are pretty ballsy of accusing mitchell of basically covering up/fabricating/lying without any evidence of him doing so in his previous experiences in the u.s. government.
and yes will, i am well aware he is involved in the operations of bosox.
so then who do you guys think in the bosox organization used it? big papi? manny? schilling?
i dont even like the bosox, but u guys are basically accusing someone of lying without evidence and that doesn't sit well with me.
epark1281
Dec 19 2007, 07:45 AM
QUOTE (k o k o n u t @ Dec 18 2007, 02:50 PM)

you guys are pretty ballsy of accusing mitchell of basically covering up/fabricating/lying without any evidence of him doing so in his previous experiences in the u.s. government.
and yes will, i am well aware he is involved in the operations of bosox.
so then who do you guys think in the bosox organization used it? big papi? manny? schilling?
i dont even like the bosox, but u guys are basically accusing someone of lying without evidence and that doesn't sit well with me.
I don't think that ANYBODY is accusing Mitchell of lying. The proof is in the pudding, no? But basically, there is no pudding.
A. Mitchell is part of the Boston Red Sox organization. That doesn't make him a lier, that gives him a conflict of interest
B. The two guys that cooperated with the investigation were former trainers for the Mets and the Yankees
C. These two guys had their feet held to the fire with prison time, they sang like birds.
D. Everything is hearsay. My word against his. There is no iron clad proof that they did it.
While the Mitchell report is most LIKELY a solid sound document, those four caveats i would like to make clear. With ANY report like this, there is room for speculation. Any educated individual can see both sides.
kokopuff!
Dec 19 2007, 02:53 PM
sorry for being uneducated. yea some people on the list might not have taken it but the report it self shows evidence there was either a intention or great suspicion. No proof? hand signed signatures by the players ain't enough? receipts ain't enough? and btw mitchell report was written to expose the players that was involved with hgh and steroids, not necessarily that they used it. i dont think senator mitchell would be that dumb enough not to consider your latter 3 of your four educated points before he published his report.
please go reread the mitchell report.
and please do show me articles on accusations of mitchell fabricating the list for the bosox because i want to read them. mitchell is too much of a hardcore fan for the game to fabricate his report and why would he? does he want his report to have no credibility? all the time he used to investigate to write this up would be a waste. trust me, his loyalty for the game goes beyond what team hes on helping. and so would any true baseball fan.
and yes i have considered BOTH sides of his report. and yet i still don't think he would fabricate his report to cover up the Red Sox and expose the Yanks.
sorry this isn't korean politics, where no one tells the truth.
x-factor
Dec 19 2007, 03:38 PM
He's probably not lying, however there has to be speculation allowed towards how impartial his judgment is just because of his involvement in the Boston Office.
This is BEFORE the report even came out:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7365076?print=trueBelieve Mitchell we may, speculate we will. He saw it coming himself.
From some other article:
QUOTE
Mitchell is a director of the Red Sox, and some questioned whether that created a conflict, especially because none of their prime players were in the report.
"Judge me by my work," Mitchell said. "You will not find any evidence of bias, special treatment, for the Red Sox or anyone else. That had no effect on this investigation or this report, none whatsoever."
Sorry Mitchell, but every single human being has a bias of some sort, big or small. Since when can we trust politicians/lawyers anymore anyway?
kokopuff!
Dec 19 2007, 03:48 PM
ooo i love ken rosenthal but i would like to see a follow up for that article because it was before the release of the report.
ya i agree everyone is human, no doubt. but he has too much to lose.
QUOTE
5) Is Mitchell conflicted by his role as director of the Red Sox?
While leading baseball's steroid investigation, Mitchell has reportedly removed himself from any active involvement with the Red Sox. It has also been reported, however, that he will return to a paid, active advisory role with the team soon after the report is issued.
On one hand, Mitchell would seem to have an incentive to refrain from naming any star Red Sox players, particularly those who contributed to the team's World Series victories in 2004 and '07. On the other hand, Mitchell has been entrusted by U.S. presidents and world leaders to negotiate some of the most important peace deals in the 20th century. It seems unlikely he would endanger his extraordinary reputation in order to protect a few baseball players. This is a guy with a lot on the line, perhaps more so than any player.
4) What if a player has been falsely named?
There would be at least two significant consequences. First, a false naming would deeply embarrass Selig and George Mitchell and undercut the report's credibility.
Second, it would create the potential for a libel lawsuit against Mitchell and MLB, which has reportedly indemnified Mitchell against any personal liability. Libel constitutes a false and defamatory statement published in writing. It is very difficult to prove, however, particularly when the plaintiff is a public figure, such as a major league baseball player. A public figure must show the defendant had "actual malice," meaning knowledge or recklessness, in making the false and defamatory statement. In the absence of a probably non-existent "smoking gun," actual malice seems exceedingly unlikely with Mitchell and others on his investigation team.
and he did name those people from the 04, 07 squad.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...chellreport.qa/(maybe more credible just because it's not fox ahahaha)
the question is will/would he cover up his boston players? the answer: most likely not.
jurassic5
Dec 20 2007, 01:50 PM
there may be no current red sox on the list...but here are former Sox players.
QUOTE
Roger Clemens, Mo Vaughn, Eric Gagne, Brendan Donnelly, Steve Woodard, Jose Canseco, Manny Alexander, Paxton Crawford, Jeremy Giambi, Josias Manzanillo, Chris Donnels, Mike Lansing, Kent Mercker, and Mike Stanton.
i trust mitchell more than i would 2 former employees that are getting pressured by the federal government to give names....
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