Tibet protests against China turn deadly
BEIJING - Protests led by Buddhist monks against Chinese rule in Tibet turned violent Friday, bathing Lhasa in smoke from tear gas, bonfires and burned shops, and posing a challenge to China on whether its image can withstand a harsh crackdown ahead of the Beijing Olympics.
At least 10 people died in the rioting, state media reported.
From exile in India, the Dalai Lama appealed to China not to use force to end the largest, most sustained demonstrations in nearly two decades against Beijing's 57-year rule in Tibet. China's government in Tibet accused the Dalai Lama's supporters of inciting the unrest and imposed a curfew, ordering people to stay indoors.
Eyewitness accounts and photos posted on the Internet portrayed a chaotic scene in Lhasa, the provincial capital, with crowds hurling rocks at security forces, hotels and restaurants. The U.S. Embassy said Americans had reported gunfire.
Reports of deaths varied and could not be independently verified, but China's official Xinhua News Agency said Saturday that 10 people were confirmed dead. The dead included "business people," according to an earlier Xinhua report. The agency also has said no foreigners were hurt.
At a demonstration outside the United Nations in New York, Psurbu Tsering of the Tibetan Association of New York and New Jersey said its members received phone calls from Tibet claiming 70 people had been killed and 1,000 arrested.
In some of the strongest words yet from officials, regional Tibet government head Champa Phunstok warned Saturday that the authorities will respond forcefully.
"We did not open fire, however we will deal harshly with these criminals who are carrying out activities to split the nation," he told The Associated Press on the sidelines of the National People's Congress in Beijing, China's annual legislative session.
Shops were set on fire Friday along two main streets surrounding the Jokhang temple, Tibet's most sacred shrine and the heart of Lhasa's old city, sending out thick clouds of smoke. Young men set fire to a Chinese flag and a huge bonfire burned in a street. Armed police in riot gear backed by armored vehicles blocked intersections, said a Tibetan guide.
The violence, which came on the fifth day of sporadic and largely peaceful protests, poses difficulties for a communist leadership that has looked to the Aug. 8-24 Olympics as a way to recast China as a friendly, modern power. Too rough a crackdown could put that at risk while balking could embolden protesters, costing Beijing authority in often restive Tibet.
"China is afraid of letting this protest mount. On the other hand, the world's eyes are upon China in advance of the Olympics. If they're too heavy-handed, it could cause them a lot of problems," said Jamie Metzl of the New York-based Asia Society. "It's an open question as to how much China thinks it can afford a major crisis in advance of the Summer Olympics."
On Saturday, Xinhua said Lhasa had "reverted to calm at the wee hours" and electricity and phone service, which had been cut for parts of Friday, was being restored.
Witnesses said police were patrolling the streets but things appeared peaceful. Shops were closed but government staff were required to work, said a woman who answered the telephone at the Lhasa Hotel.
"There's no conflict today. The streets look pretty quiet," said the woman who refused to give her name for fear of retribution.
On Friday, in an ominous turn for Beijing, the street protests broadened. Photographs taken by camera phone and provided by the Indian branch of Students for a Free Tibet showed hundreds of Tibetans marching through Xiahe, a Tibetan town in the western province of Gansu. Robed monks displayed the banned Tibetan national flag.
In Lhasa, the protests that had largely been confined to monks spilled over to ordinary Tibetans, who vented pent-up anger at Chinese and their businesses. Guests and employees at the Lhasa Dong Cuo International Youth Hostel huddled in the lobby, away from windows being smashed by protesters.
"Monks and very young men down to the age of 15-16 are smashing the Chinese shops, kicking in doors and windows, setting the shops on fire and beating the Chinese in the vicinity," the Danish daily Politiken quoted an unidentified witness as saying.
The exiled Dalai Lama, whom most Tibetans consider their spiritual leader, said China should stop using force in Tibet, saying he is "deeply concerned."
"I therefore appeal to the Chinese leadership to stop using force and address the long-simmering resentment of the Tibetan people through dialogue with the Tibetan people. I also urge my fellow Tibetans not to resort to violence," he said in a statement released in Dharmsala, India, seat of the government-in-exile.
Actor Richard Gere, a Buddhist who has spoken out for Tibetan independence since 1978, said he was not surprised by the uprising.
"You can't repress the people to the extent that Tibetans have been repressed for the last six decades now and not expect that at some point that it will explode," he told The Associated Press.
As in Myanmar, where Buddhist monks led pro-democracy protests in September, Buddhism permeates every aspect of Tibetan life.
Over the centuries, Tibet was at times part of China's dynastic empires. Communist forces invaded the region in 1950, to reclaim the Himalayan region and seize the commanding heights overlooking rival India. Pressured to cede more power to the communists, the Dalai Lama fled into exile in 1959 after a failed uprising.
The latest unrest began Monday, the anniversary of the 1959 rebellion, when 300 monks from one monastery demanded the release of other monks detained last fall. But political demands soon came to the fore. Other monks and ordinary Tibetans demanded independence and unfurled the Tibetan flag. Arrests ensued, leading to more protests.
Friday's violence apparently was triggered after police moved in to stop a group of protesting monks. Crowds then grew, and when police showed up in larger numbers, protesters attacked police cars and shops.
"It was chaos everywhere. I could see fires, smoke, cars and motorcycles burning," said the Tibetan guide, who asked not to be identified for fear of government retaliation.
Xinhua issued terse reports in English only, saying people had been hospitalized with injuries and vehicles and shops burned. Hospitals contacted in Lhasa said they were ordered not to release any information.
The Tibet government called the riot an act of sabotage that was "organized, premeditated and masterminded by the Dalai clique," according to Xinhua.
The unrest came as Tibet, long China's poorest province, has wracked up stunning growth, in part fueled by hefty investment and subsidies from Beijing meant to alleviate resentment among Tibetans. Still, Tibetans have complained that the economic benefits have mainly enriched Chinese, many of them newcomers, leaving Tibetans feeling more marginalized.
China, which has invested billions of dollars in Olympics preparations, has staked its national prestige on the games. Five months before the games begin, it had expected to bask in international praise. Instead, the protests are attracting the kind of international attention China doesn't want.
The White House urged China to "respect Tibetan culture," while the U.S. ambassador to China urged senior Chinese officials to use restraint in dealing with the protesters, according to State Department Spokesman Sean McCormack.
"Beijing needs to respect Tibetan culture. ... We regret the tensions between the ethnic groups and Beijing," said White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe. President Bush "has said consistently that Beijing needs to have a dialogue with the Dalai Lama."
European Union leaders also appealed to China to show calm in Tibet, but released a statement condemning China's handling of the protests so far.
Other Tibet watchers are less certain that international scrutiny will hold back China's hand if it feels threatened.
"Chinese leaders are not afraid of using force when they feel it's necessary. I don't think they'll be shy because there's now been violence on the demonstrators' side. I feel they think this gives them the green light to use a strong response," said Robbie Barnett, a Tibetan studies expert at Columbia University.
U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour issued a statement expressing concern "about escalating tensions."
International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge declined to comment on the protests. But speaking generally about China, Rogge said the human rights issues were not the focus of his group. "We are not an activist organization."
Tibet has been a focal point for protests by activists and international supporters ahead of the start of the Olympic torch relay, scheduled to come through China in May. Beijing plans for the torch to be carried to the top of Mount Everest, and closed its side of the mountain to climbers in a bid to prevent activists from disrupting the relay.
The timing of the Olympics has been a key factor for pro-independence advocates, said Kate Saunders, with the International Campaign for Tibet.
"There's an awareness in Tibet of the international spotlight on China and of the way that groups outside and individuals from different organizations are actively using the global spotlight to press for change in China," she said.
___
Associated Press writers Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations and Ashwini Bhatia in Dharmsala, India contributed to this story.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080315/ap_on_re_as/china_tibet
Full Version: Tibet Protests Against China Turn Deadly
china is leaning toward revolution... but with this rate it probably gonna take another 100 years
Ugh. Why isn't anyone commenting on this while so many trivial news articles get dozens of replies?
I wonder how many human rights China is breaking right now. Oh well, humans rights were never a thing of importance for the Chinese government. I admit I know not much about Tibetian-Chinese relationship but I see faults on both sides. I read that the natives specifically targeted people of the Han ethnicity, the ethnic majority of China. That's like throwing rocks at a wasp hive. But a riot of this rather small magnitude did not call for a military occupation. I'm sure things would've been different if it weren't for the Olympics, aka China's newest, grandest, best propaganda machine since the man Mao himself. But this defeats China's supposedly fast rise to become a global power. One can't be a superpower when this kind of thing happens. This saddens me greatly.
I see an Olympics of partisan propaganda instead of what it should be, a focus on China's rich culture and long history.
I wonder how many human rights China is breaking right now. Oh well, humans rights were never a thing of importance for the Chinese government. I admit I know not much about Tibetian-Chinese relationship but I see faults on both sides. I read that the natives specifically targeted people of the Han ethnicity, the ethnic majority of China. That's like throwing rocks at a wasp hive. But a riot of this rather small magnitude did not call for a military occupation. I'm sure things would've been different if it weren't for the Olympics, aka China's newest, grandest, best propaganda machine since the man Mao himself. But this defeats China's supposedly fast rise to become a global power. One can't be a superpower when this kind of thing happens. This saddens me greatly.
I see an Olympics of partisan propaganda instead of what it should be, a focus on China's rich culture and long history.
okay I'm chinese and stuff but I'm really sick and tired of China's attitude and treatment of tibet.
It's said unjust and horrific
I hope hey realise there are other ways to deal with matters
violence is NOT the key
rip to the ppl that died
It's said unjust and horrific
I hope hey realise there are other ways to deal with matters
violence is NOT the key
rip to the ppl that died
I don't think they necessarily want to resort to violence to end issues but that's just the custom based on the ideologies of social communism. That's the major backside(among many) to the system of government China has. It must rule with an iron fist to maintain social order. Its social and economic system is delicate b/c it's state-based. And sadly, Tibet falls under what China considers to be part of its state. This really isn't anything new. However, I believe that death toll would've been much higher 20 years ago(think Tian'anmen). One thing to note that this time, China did not send the Liberation Army but the police instead. I suppose you are right, China is evidently under way for a major social and political revolution. But whether that'll be for the better, who knows.
The Communists mismanaged the region, It was always a part of China but the PLA made the mistake of using brute force which created animosity and ethnic strife.
Socialists don't know how to deal with people correctly.
Socialists don't know how to deal with people correctly.
rip to those who passed away. i saw the footage from the media, they reported 30 though. probably a lot more, im guessing.
QUOTE (roffles @ Mar 16 2008, 06:57 PM) 
Ugh. Why isn't anyone commenting on this while so many trivial news articles get dozens of replies?
I wonder how many human rights China is breaking right now. Oh well, humans rights were never a thing of importance for the Chinese government. I admit I know not much about Tibetian-Chinese relationship but I see faults on both sides. I read that the natives specifically targeted people of the Han ethnicity, the ethnic majority of China. That's like throwing rocks at a wasp hive. But a riot of this rather small magnitude did not call for a military occupation. I'm sure things would've been different if it weren't for the Olympics, aka China's newest, grandest, best propaganda machine since the man Mao himself. But this defeats China's supposedly fast rise to become a global power. One can't be a superpower when this kind of thing happens. This saddens me greatly.
I see an Olympics of partisan propaganda instead of what it should be, a focus on China's rich culture and long history.
I wonder how many human rights China is breaking right now. Oh well, humans rights were never a thing of importance for the Chinese government. I admit I know not much about Tibetian-Chinese relationship but I see faults on both sides. I read that the natives specifically targeted people of the Han ethnicity, the ethnic majority of China. That's like throwing rocks at a wasp hive. But a riot of this rather small magnitude did not call for a military occupation. I'm sure things would've been different if it weren't for the Olympics, aka China's newest, grandest, best propaganda machine since the man Mao himself. But this defeats China's supposedly fast rise to become a global power. One can't be a superpower when this kind of thing happens. This saddens me greatly.
I see an Olympics of partisan propaganda instead of what it should be, a focus on China's rich culture and long history.
i didn't realise there's another thread for this. so i made another. :x sorry about it!
i totally agree with you on why isn't anyone commenting on this and doing so for all the trivial news.
this was supposed to be a peaceful demonstration and it's something that Tibetans are always trying to do. they're trying to express to the world and the Chinese government their views. and i don't see anything from with a peaceful demonstration. but as always, when one side gets violent, it gets ugly on both sides.
China has to release the political prisoners that they've captured. i'm sure they've been captured for trying to express their views about Dalai Lama and Tibetan's independence.
it's sad when people get injured, emotionally tramatised or worst, died from all these. what's wrong with trying to get your leader (ie. Dalai Lama) back to his own country and free your country from foreign control.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080316/ap_on_...SoBYGjnqzGs0NUE
Tibet protests spread to other provinces
By TINI TRAN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
BEIJING - Violence in Tibet spilled over into neighboring provinces Sunday where Tibetan protesters defied a Chinese government crackdown. The Dalai Lama warned Tibet faced "cultural genocide" and appealed to the world for help.
Protests against Chinese rule of Tibet were reported in neighboring Sichuan and Qinghai provinces and also in western Gansu province. All are home to sizable Tibetan populations.
The demonstrations come after protests in the Tibetan capital Lhasa escalated into violence Friday, with Buddhist monks and others torching police cars and shops in the fiercest challenge to Beijing's rule over the region in nearly two decades.
"Whether intentionally or unintentionally, some kind of cultural genocide is taking place," said the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader. He was referring to China's policy of encouraging the ethnic Han majority to migrate to Tibet, restrictions on Buddhist temples and re-education programs for monks.
He told reporters in Dharmsala, the north Indian town where Tibet's self-declared government-in-exile is based, that an international body should investigate the government's crackdown on the Lhasa protests.
Tibet was effectively independent for decades before Chinese communist troops entered in 1950. The latest unrest began March 10 on the anniversary of a 1959 uprising against Chinese rule of Tibet.
The protests are an embarrassment for China, coming just weeks before the Beijing Summer Olympics ceremonies kick off with the torch relay, which is set to pass through Tibet.
Thubten Samphel, a spokesman for the Dalai Lama's government in exile, said multiple sources inside Tibet had counted at least 80 corpses since the violence broke out Friday. He did not know how many of the bodies were protesters. On Friday, the exiled government said at least 30 protesters had been killed by Chinese authorities and the number could be as high as 100.
The official Chinese Xinhua News Agency has said at least 10 civilians were burned to death Friday. The figures could not be independently verified because China restricts foreign media access to Tibet.
In Sichuan province, Tibetan monks and police clashed Sunday in Aba county after the monks staged a protest, said a resident there who refused to give his name. He said one policeman had been killed and three or four police vans had been set on fire.
The India-based Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy said at least seven people have been shot dead in the county. There was no way of immediately confirming the claim.
In Qinghai province, 100 monks defied a directive confining them to Rongwo Monastery in Tongren city by climbing a hill behind the monastery, where they set off fireworks and burned incense to protest the crackdown in Tibet.
Businesses were shuttered, and about 30 riot police with shields took up posts near the monastery. Police forced journalists to delete photographs of police.
In western Gansu province, more than 100 students protested at a university in Lanzhou, according to Matt Whitticase of London-based activist group Free Tibet.
A curfew was imposed in Xiahe city in Gansu province on Sunday, a day after police fired tear gas on a 1,000 protesters, including Buddhist monks and ordinary citizens, who had marched from the historic Labrang monastery.
Large communities of ethnic Tibetans live far outside modern Tibet in areas that were the Himalayan region's eastern and northeastern provinces of Amdo and Kham until the communist takeover in 1951. Those areas were later split off by Beijing to become the Chinese province of Qinghai and part of Sichuan province.
Lhasa appeared to remain under a curfew on Sunday, though some people and cars were seen on the streets during daylight. The government has not announced the curfew but residents said authorities have warned them not to go outside for several days now.
Hong Kong Cable TV said about 200 military vehicles each carrying dozens of armed soldiers, drove into the center of Lhasa on Sunday. The footage showed mostly empty streets, but for armored and military vehicles patrolling and soldiers searching buildings.
Loudspeakers on the streets repeatedly broadcast slogans urging residents to "discern between enemies and friends, maintain order."
Xinhua said most shops in the Old Town area of Lhasa, which saw the brunt of the violence, were still closed Sunday. It said some shops in other parts of the town had reopened.
China's communist government is hoping Beijing's hosting of the Aug. 8-24 Olympics will boost its popularity at home as well as its image abroad. But the event has already attracted international scrutiny of China's human rights record and its pollution problems.
International criticism of the crackdown in Tibet so far has been mild, with no threats of an Olympic boycott or other sanctions. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Sunday on China "to exercise restraint in dealing with the protests."
Rice said she was "concerned by reports of a sharply increased police and military presence in and around Lhasa." Her statement urged China to release those jailed for protesting.
International Olympic Committee president Jacques Rogge said Saturday he opposed an Olympic boycott over Tibet.
Tibet protests spread to other provinces
By TINI TRAN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
BEIJING - Violence in Tibet spilled over into neighboring provinces Sunday where Tibetan protesters defied a Chinese government crackdown. The Dalai Lama warned Tibet faced "cultural genocide" and appealed to the world for help.
Protests against Chinese rule of Tibet were reported in neighboring Sichuan and Qinghai provinces and also in western Gansu province. All are home to sizable Tibetan populations.
The demonstrations come after protests in the Tibetan capital Lhasa escalated into violence Friday, with Buddhist monks and others torching police cars and shops in the fiercest challenge to Beijing's rule over the region in nearly two decades.
"Whether intentionally or unintentionally, some kind of cultural genocide is taking place," said the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader. He was referring to China's policy of encouraging the ethnic Han majority to migrate to Tibet, restrictions on Buddhist temples and re-education programs for monks.
He told reporters in Dharmsala, the north Indian town where Tibet's self-declared government-in-exile is based, that an international body should investigate the government's crackdown on the Lhasa protests.
Tibet was effectively independent for decades before Chinese communist troops entered in 1950. The latest unrest began March 10 on the anniversary of a 1959 uprising against Chinese rule of Tibet.
The protests are an embarrassment for China, coming just weeks before the Beijing Summer Olympics ceremonies kick off with the torch relay, which is set to pass through Tibet.
Thubten Samphel, a spokesman for the Dalai Lama's government in exile, said multiple sources inside Tibet had counted at least 80 corpses since the violence broke out Friday. He did not know how many of the bodies were protesters. On Friday, the exiled government said at least 30 protesters had been killed by Chinese authorities and the number could be as high as 100.
The official Chinese Xinhua News Agency has said at least 10 civilians were burned to death Friday. The figures could not be independently verified because China restricts foreign media access to Tibet.
In Sichuan province, Tibetan monks and police clashed Sunday in Aba county after the monks staged a protest, said a resident there who refused to give his name. He said one policeman had been killed and three or four police vans had been set on fire.
The India-based Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy said at least seven people have been shot dead in the county. There was no way of immediately confirming the claim.
In Qinghai province, 100 monks defied a directive confining them to Rongwo Monastery in Tongren city by climbing a hill behind the monastery, where they set off fireworks and burned incense to protest the crackdown in Tibet.
Businesses were shuttered, and about 30 riot police with shields took up posts near the monastery. Police forced journalists to delete photographs of police.
In western Gansu province, more than 100 students protested at a university in Lanzhou, according to Matt Whitticase of London-based activist group Free Tibet.
A curfew was imposed in Xiahe city in Gansu province on Sunday, a day after police fired tear gas on a 1,000 protesters, including Buddhist monks and ordinary citizens, who had marched from the historic Labrang monastery.
Large communities of ethnic Tibetans live far outside modern Tibet in areas that were the Himalayan region's eastern and northeastern provinces of Amdo and Kham until the communist takeover in 1951. Those areas were later split off by Beijing to become the Chinese province of Qinghai and part of Sichuan province.
Lhasa appeared to remain under a curfew on Sunday, though some people and cars were seen on the streets during daylight. The government has not announced the curfew but residents said authorities have warned them not to go outside for several days now.
Hong Kong Cable TV said about 200 military vehicles each carrying dozens of armed soldiers, drove into the center of Lhasa on Sunday. The footage showed mostly empty streets, but for armored and military vehicles patrolling and soldiers searching buildings.
Loudspeakers on the streets repeatedly broadcast slogans urging residents to "discern between enemies and friends, maintain order."
Xinhua said most shops in the Old Town area of Lhasa, which saw the brunt of the violence, were still closed Sunday. It said some shops in other parts of the town had reopened.
China's communist government is hoping Beijing's hosting of the Aug. 8-24 Olympics will boost its popularity at home as well as its image abroad. But the event has already attracted international scrutiny of China's human rights record and its pollution problems.
International criticism of the crackdown in Tibet so far has been mild, with no threats of an Olympic boycott or other sanctions. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Sunday on China "to exercise restraint in dealing with the protests."
Rice said she was "concerned by reports of a sharply increased police and military presence in and around Lhasa." Her statement urged China to release those jailed for protesting.
International Olympic Committee president Jacques Rogge said Saturday he opposed an Olympic boycott over Tibet.
Well if it was the usa and people were rioting, wouldn't you send in army or police to stop them? I mean this is not a peaceful rally. Both sides are wrong.
QUOTE (Bahwe @ Mar 15 2008, 01:15 AM)
QUOTE (papabear @ Mar 16 2008, 01:11 PM)
Interestingly enough I'm working on an 8 page essay on the Chinese government's oppression of Tibet right now for my Asian politics and I've needed another source, so thanks for the links!
But anyway, China's communist government is just so...MESSED UP towards the Tibetans. The Tibetans have all reason to protest! You can't just go taking away their country like that and claiming it's "a part of China" meanwhile Tibet has a completely different culture, language, and Tibetans are even a different ethnicity! Arghhh. You know what's worse is that even the Taiwanese claim that Tibet is a part of China - meanwhile the Taiwanese actually speak Chinese and have far more in common with China - so wtf?!?! Reading this stuff makes me SO MAD. T_T
Am I the only one that picked up from the reading that Tibetan monnks used violence against innocent
civilians?
Geez, I really dislike communist, but China needs to send their army to Tibet so that
no more civilians will be injured and to restore order in the town.
civilians?
Geez, I really dislike communist, but China needs to send their army to Tibet so thatno more civilians will be injured and to restore order in the town.
Could this be the Tiananmen of our era? I certainly hope not.
Can't take anything the state media says seriously when it comes to number of deaths or anything else that makes China look bad.
But I wonder why the monks are being so violent, leading others to burn down Chinese shops and whatnot.
I thought monks were suppose to be peaceful... :/
Religion is so confusing...
I don't really have a comment on this, but I do feel sad when I watched the videos of people praying on the street and people being dragged away while most of them are hugging and crying. The protests aren't only in Tibet right? There's one in India and Australia... although I don't see how that will help since it's not in China.
I thought monks were suppose to be peaceful... :/
Religion is so confusing...
I don't really have a comment on this, but I do feel sad when I watched the videos of people praying on the street and people being dragged away while most of them are hugging and crying. The protests aren't only in Tibet right? There's one in India and Australia... although I don't see how that will help since it's not in China.
QUOTE (superhumanchichi @ Mar 16 2008, 03:07 PM)
Interestingly enough I'm working on an 8 page essay on the Chinese government's oppression of Tibet right now for my Asian politics and I've needed another source, so thanks for the links!
But anyway, China's communist government is just so...MESSED UP towards the Tibetans. The Tibetans have all reason to protest! You can't just go taking away their country like that and claiming it's "a part of China" meanwhile Tibet has a completely different culture, language, and Tibetans are even a different ethnicity! Arghhh. You know what's worse is that even the Taiwanese claim that Tibet is a part of China - meanwhile the Taiwanese actually speak Chinese and have far more in common with China - so wtf?!?! Reading this stuff makes me SO MAD. T_T
But anyway, China's communist government is just so...MESSED UP towards the Tibetans. The Tibetans have all reason to protest! You can't just go taking away their country like that and claiming it's "a part of China" meanwhile Tibet has a completely different culture, language, and Tibetans are even a different ethnicity! Arghhh. You know what's worse is that even the Taiwanese claim that Tibet is a part of China - meanwhile the Taiwanese actually speak Chinese and have far more in common with China - so wtf?!?! Reading this stuff makes me SO MAD. T_T
i'm sorry to let you know that china isn't the only country to take over another "country". it's called imperialism. what do you think we did to hawaii? i admit that there are numerous numerous human rights issues regarding china-tibet relations, but i hate when other countries are hypocritical when they themselves did the same exact thing.
QUOTE (superhumanchichi @ Mar 16 2008, 03:07 PM)
Interestingly enough I'm working on an 8 page essay on the Chinese government's oppression of Tibet right now for my Asian politics and I've needed another source, so thanks for the links!
But anyway, China's communist government is just so...MESSED UP towards the Tibetans. The Tibetans have all reason to protest! You can't just go taking away their country like that and claiming it's "a part of China" meanwhile Tibet has a completely different culture, language, and Tibetans are even a different ethnicity! Arghhh. You know what's worse is that even the Taiwanese claim that Tibet is a part of China - meanwhile the Taiwanese actually speak Chinese and have far more in common with China - so wtf?!?! Reading this stuff makes me SO MAD. T_T
But anyway, China's communist government is just so...MESSED UP towards the Tibetans. The Tibetans have all reason to protest! You can't just go taking away their country like that and claiming it's "a part of China" meanwhile Tibet has a completely different culture, language, and Tibetans are even a different ethnicity! Arghhh. You know what's worse is that even the Taiwanese claim that Tibet is a part of China - meanwhile the Taiwanese actually speak Chinese and have far more in common with China - so wtf?!?! Reading this stuff makes me SO MAD. T_T
Diff culture, language and and ethnicity? I mean, what the hell am i doing in America and not supporting blacks to have their own country because they were oppressed and violent exploited because its majority is white? If thats your way of applying democracy and freedom for countries, ill do the same for America. its really messed up trying to stop a riot and protest. What would you do? Stand there and do nothing while the riot continues? that would make you a bad parent.
^Small detail but the Chinese government took over their country so it is their land and they want it back. African Americans (most) are decendents of slaves brought over from other countries so you wouldn't argue for them to have their own country in America, your example would be better if you used the natives in Hawaii instead or the Native Americans.
Wouldn't that make it worse? I understand that there needs to be control there to keep people from being hurt but the whole reason as to why they are protesting is because they hate the influx of Hans in their land and the lack of respect/understanding they get from the Chinese government. Bringing in Chinese troops might just fuel their anger.
QUOTE (Bethany @ Mar 16 2008, 11:12 AM)
Am I the only one that picked up from the reading that Tibetan monnks used violence against innocent
civilians? Geez, I really dislike communist, but China needs to send their army to Tibet so that
no more civilians will be injured and to restore order in the town.
civilians?
Geez, I really dislike communist, but China needs to send their army to Tibet so thatno more civilians will be injured and to restore order in the town.
Wouldn't that make it worse? I understand that there needs to be control there to keep people from being hurt but the whole reason as to why they are protesting is because they hate the influx of Hans in their land and the lack of respect/understanding they get from the Chinese government. Bringing in Chinese troops might just fuel their anger.
RIP to everyone who passed away =(
mann i hear about these kinds of things happening in China from my friend.
its so sad T_T
mann i hear about these kinds of things happening in China from my friend.
its so sad T_T
QUOTE (reallyAmused @ Mar 17 2008, 01:24 AM)
^Small detail but the Chinese government took over their country so it is their land and they want it back. African Americans (most) are decendents of slaves brought over from other countries so you wouldn't argue for them to have their own country in America, your example would be better if you used the natives in Hawaii instead or the Native Americans.
Wouldn't that make it worse? I understand that there needs to be control there to keep people from being hurt but the whole reason as to why they are protesting is because they hate the influx of Hans in their land and the lack of respect/understanding they get from the Chinese government. Bringing in Chinese troops might just fuel their anger.
Wouldn't that make it worse? I understand that there needs to be control there to keep people from being hurt but the whole reason as to why they are protesting is because they hate the influx of Hans in their land and the lack of respect/understanding they get from the Chinese government. Bringing in Chinese troops might just fuel their anger.
lack of respect? you kidding me? Tibet isnt poor like it was in the Mao era. Its a matter of not wanting to be controlled by Han Chinese because of different ethnicity, and culture. and that reason is not strong enough of a reason for independence. And also saying Chinese people are stealing their land? Its not like Chinese come and steal it away and leave them in a pile of poo. Its just the Tibetans do not want to cultural integrate with the Chinese. and for the country of China it's important to keep Tibet. You have no idea how countries would start putting armies in a free tibet and annoy the hell out of china. Its a matter of safety for the CPP to ensure no countries would spy on them.
QUOTE (Fuznut88 @ Mar 17 2008, 02:00 AM)
lack of respect? you kidding me? Tibet isnt poor like it was in the Mao era. Its a matter of not wanting to be controlled by Han Chinese because of different ethnicity, and culture. and that reason is not strong enough of a reason for independence. And also saying Chinese people are stealing their land? Its not like Chinese come and steal it away and leave them in a pile of poo. Its just the Tibetans do not want to cultural integrate with the Chinese. and for the country of China it's important to keep Tibet. You have no idea how countries would start putting armies in a free tibet and annoy the hell out of china. Its a matter of safety for the CPP to ensure no countries would spy on them.
it makes me sad to realize there are people who think like you in this world!
and RIP to all those who passed away
QUOTE
i'm sorry to let you know that china isn't the only country to take over another "country". it's called imperialism. what do you think we did to hawaii? i admit that there are numerous numerous human rights issues regarding china-tibet relations, but i hate when other countries are hypocritical when they themselves did the same exact thing.
simply because it happens doesn't make it right and if you read the articles, other countries aren't being hypocrites, they're advising China to be lenient with the Tibetan people not set them free. it's th people who feel the whole situation is messed up, and Tibet deserves to be free. too bad no government wants to be 'hypocrites' and stand up for the Tibetian people. this is one time when i wouldn't mind seeing a little hypocricy.
QUOTE (apple920 @ Mar 17 2008, 10:18 AM)
simply because it happens doesn't make it right and if you read the articles, other countries aren't being hypocrites, they're advising China to be lenient with the Tibetan people not set them free. it's th people who feel the whole situation is messed up, and Tibet deserves to be free. too bad no government wants to be 'hypocrites' and stand up for the Tibetian people. this is one time when i wouldn't mind seeing a little hypocricy.
of course. i agree that it's not right. HOWEVER, i also don't think it is right that certain other governments are supporting tibet to be independent and are criticizing china on human rights issues when these other governments have had the same past during the imperialism age (or even presently). the reason why i find it hypocritical is that when they did it, no one said anything and people recognize(d) it as completely legitimate. but when china does it, waves and waves of criticism come.
QUOTE (reallyAmused @ Mar 17 2008, 12:24 AM)
Wouldn't that make it worse? I understand that there needs to be control there to keep people from being hurt but the whole reason as to why they are protesting is because they hate the influx of Hans in their land and the lack of respect/understanding they get from the Chinese government. Bringing in Chinese troops might just fuel their anger.
I don't think it makes it worse. By not doing anything, more civilians will get killed. Also, Tibetans were
not only injuring Han Chinese, but also Hui Chinese and anyone who is not Tibetan. The protest has already
spread to Chinese provinces like Sichuan, so are the Chinese supposed to just stand there and let the innocents
get injured? I think a lot of Western media like to play the game of hypocrisy. For example, they spend so much of its
energy criticizing the Japanese for killing off the whales when Iceland is doing the same thing.
The thought of tibetan monks hurting innocent civilians doesn't sit right with me. No matter what the Chinese
government is doing to the Tibetans, the civilians are innocent people. They did not oppress the Tibetans, it's the
Chinese government. As monks they should've used better discretion b/c now what they preach (non-violence) is not
in line with what they practice; it makes them look like hypocrites.
I'm not siding with the Chinese government, but I don't like seeing innocent civilians getting killed and people
around the world think it's perfectly fine b/c the Tibetans are oppressed people and they have the right to use
violence on any Chinese person.
QUOTE
You can't just go taking away their country like that and claiming it's "a part of China" meanwhile Tibet has a completely different culture, language, and Tibetans are even a different ethnicity!
Why should that matter? Canada and US has tons of different ethnicity and guess what? So does China. Free Hawaii!!!! OH wait....
QUOTE
i'm sorry to let you know that china isn't the only country to take over another "country". it's called imperialism. what do you think we did to hawaii? i admit that there are numerous numerous human rights issues regarding china-tibet relations, but i hate when other countries are hypocritical when they themselves did the same exact thing.
^Fully agree.
QUOTE (CKJ-C @ Mar 17 2008, 01:22 PM)
Why should that matter? Canada and US has tons of different ethnicity and guess what? So does China. Free Hawaii!!!! OH wait....
In Hawaii, there are actually quite the number of "Free Hawaii" banners/commercials and efforts to try to distance the islands from the mainland. But unlike Tibet, there are actually very few true natives left.
QUOTE (apple920 @ Mar 17 2008, 10:18 AM)
it makes me sad to realize there are people who think like you in this world!
and RIP to all those who passed away
simply because it happens doesn't make it right and if you read the articles, other countries aren't being hypocrites, they're advising China to be lenient with the Tibetan people not set them free. it's th people who feel the whole situation is messed up, and Tibet deserves to be free. too bad no government wants to be 'hypocrites' and stand up for the Tibetian people. this is one time when i wouldn't mind seeing a little hypocricy.
and RIP to all those who passed away
simply because it happens doesn't make it right and if you read the articles, other countries aren't being hypocrites, they're advising China to be lenient with the Tibetan people not set them free. it's th people who feel the whole situation is messed up, and Tibet deserves to be free. too bad no government wants to be 'hypocrites' and stand up for the Tibetian people. this is one time when i wouldn't mind seeing a little hypocricy.
How sad? Its common sense that a country isn't going to let go a piece of land they own and urbanized. Freedom means obligation and responsibility. What makes you so sure, other countries aren't going to take advantage of Tibet when they are free?
QUOTE (Fuznut88 @ Mar 17 2008, 01:00 AM)
lack of respect? you kidding me? Tibet isnt poor like it was in the Mao era. Its a matter of not wanting to be controlled by Han Chinese because of different ethnicity, and culture. and that reason is not strong enough of a reason for independence. And also saying Chinese people are stealing their land? Its not like Chinese come and steal it away and leave them in a pile of poo. Its just the Tibetans do not want to cultural integrate with the Chinese. and for the country of China it's important to keep Tibet. You have no idea how countries would start putting armies in a free tibet and annoy the hell out of china. Its a matter of safety for the CPP to ensure no countries would spy on them.
QUOTE (Fuznut88 @ Mar 17 2008, 03:09 PM)
How sad? Its common sense that a country isn't going to let go a piece of land they own and urbanized. Freedom means obligation and responsibility. What makes you so sure, other countries aren't going to take advantage of Tibet when they are free?
^ i like your posts.
i really appreciate you sharing your views.
i dont mean no bashing or anything negative.
i agree that if China lets Tibet go, other countries might come in.
BUT Tibet has been based on a religious structure even before China came in.
i think if Tibet was free, they will not start building their armies, etc.
other countries will not see controlling tibet as a benefit,
other than trading, exporting, importing.
basic international actions.
self- determination coined by president woodrow wilson.
like kosovo.
if a population huge like tibetians are self-determined to rule themselves, they have the right to fight for it.
i personally respect the Dalai Lama a lot.
and i do want Tibet to be free.
it is a beautiful country unique by its religion,
but after the invasion their religion has been supressed and their freedom too.
china is communist. and i think they way they invaded tibet was wrong.
supressing thousands of people from practicing their religion wholeheartedly
is basically depriving them of their race.
nontheless to have complete control over the whole country.
i dont care if china think that it's doing tibet well by building railroads, etc,
that dont matter if the people aren't free and happy.
i've told myself that i will not visit china until tibet is free.
i dont care now if that sounds stupid, i may never be able to see china,
but i dont want to support china to support it to supress tibet.
this is an interesting topic.
i like reading all the posts.
take are ya'll.
Why don't these Tibetans go find their own country?
Oh yea, that's right, they can't.
If you're going to reside in a country then the least you can do is oblige to the rules of the majority.
Be a good guest.
Oh yea, that's right, they can't.
If you're going to reside in a country then the least you can do is oblige to the rules of the majority.
Be a good guest.
a bit of info for those of you who don't know about it
there are 56 different ethnic groups in China, the majority being the Hans. many of the minority groups have their own languages and their own way of living just like the Tibetans.
& tibet has been part of China since the 1644, as part of the Qing Dynasty. so claiming the communist party taking control of Tibet by force in 1949 is just rubbish
here's the map of the Qing dynasty, taken from chinahighlights.com
there are 56 different ethnic groups in China, the majority being the Hans. many of the minority groups have their own languages and their own way of living just like the Tibetans.
& tibet has been part of China since the 1644, as part of the Qing Dynasty. so claiming the communist party taking control of Tibet by force in 1949 is just rubbish
here's the map of the Qing dynasty, taken from chinahighlights.com
It's sad when people here just simply do not understand why people around the world are making a fuss of these events. To you, who is ignorant, this is probably just some rubbish Tibetans or Chinese have cooked up for media attention. And what a perfect timing, you'd say because China is hosting Olympics in 5 months. Let's not forget, this started off with a peaceful demonstration and Dalai Lama has always insisted his Middle-Way Policy, which is non-violent.
Tibetans have been suppressed by many restrictions about their religion and culture. They have lost their own land, a land that is now known as part of China. Not only that, their leader, Dalai Lama has to live in exile and they can't voice out their opinions publicly. Think about it, if the Chinese government truly allowed them to practice religious freedom (by this I mean having religious celebrations without the need of Chinese police watching closely), their love for their leaders (they hide pictures of Dalai Lama because it's a crime to be holding it in public and talking about him openly) and please don't forget about the human right violations, will there be so many pro-Tibetan councils and Tibetan exiles around? Why is it that some thinks, Tibet should just embrace China with open arms.
If the mainland Chinese keeps moving to Tibet because of the government's incentives, which they offer it generously, this is only going to cause the native Tibetans to be a minority. Please, do a kind favour by reading up more about Tibet before you voice out your mindless opinions. If this was an act of good faith, there will not be so many books on Tibetan Political Prisoners.
This is just my opinion. My apologies if they sound offensive.
2 more articles:
V Thanks for that. And I'm sorry, I meant to say biased. I was confused.
Tibetans have been suppressed by many restrictions about their religion and culture. They have lost their own land, a land that is now known as part of China. Not only that, their leader, Dalai Lama has to live in exile and they can't voice out their opinions publicly. Think about it, if the Chinese government truly allowed them to practice religious freedom (by this I mean having religious celebrations without the need of Chinese police watching closely), their love for their leaders (they hide pictures of Dalai Lama because it's a crime to be holding it in public and talking about him openly) and please don't forget about the human right violations, will there be so many pro-Tibetan councils and Tibetan exiles around? Why is it that some thinks, Tibet should just embrace China with open arms.
If the mainland Chinese keeps moving to Tibet because of the government's incentives, which they offer it generously, this is only going to cause the native Tibetans to be a minority. Please, do a kind favour by reading up more about Tibet before you voice out your mindless opinions. If this was an act of good faith, there will not be so many books on Tibetan Political Prisoners.
This is just my opinion. My apologies if they sound offensive.
2 more articles:
QUOTE
Dalai Lama under fire from Tibetan radicals
18 March 2008 0237 hrs
source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp.../335630/1/.html
DHARAMSHALA, India : Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama came in for tough criticism on Monday from prominent radical exiles demanding a review of his non-violent campaign for autonomy within China.
The leader of the pro-independence Tibetan Youth Congress publicly criticised his refusal to call for a boycott of the Beijing Olympics and urged protests in the Himalayan region to continue.
Tsewang Rigzin said an explosion of protests and rioting in the vast Himalayan region signalled the 72-year-old Dalai Lama, who has lived in northern Indian since fleeing Tibet after a failed uprising in 1959, was out of step with his people.
"China does not deserve to host the Olympics. Human-rights issues inside Tibet have deteriorated. It's evident they do not deserve the Olympics," Rigzin told reporters in Dharamshala, the hilltop base of the Tibetan exile community.
The Dalai Lama had on Sunday condemned China's "rule of terror" and "cultural genocide" in Tibet, but said Beijing should be "reminded to be a good host" of the Olympics - and did not call for a boycott.
According to Tibetan exile leaders and aides to the Dalai Lama, the Chinese crackdown in Tibet left about 100 Tibetans dead, though it could be "hundreds."
China has rejected those estimates, saying on Monday that Tibetan rioters killed 13 "innocent civilians" during the protests and also said it did not use lethal force to quell the rioting.
Rigzin said there was now mounting frustration among Tibetans over the Dalai Lama's so-called "Middle Way" policy - a non-violent campaign for autonomy rather than independence for his homeland, a region that China considers to be an undisputed part of its territory.
"I disagree with his stance," Rigzin said.
"There is a ground frustration within the Tibetan community, especially in the young generation. After six years of dialogue (with Beijing), there are still fundamental differences," the prominent activist said.
"There are a lot of frustrations. I certainly hope the Middle Way approach will be reviewed," Rigzin said. "As we can see from the protests here and all over the world, the Tibetan people remain committed to achieving independence."
The ever-cheerful Dalai Lama argues his approach is the most realistic, with China certain to never give up its sovereignty over Tibet.
But many younger Tibetans say this considered approach has not yielded any results, with his people continuing to flee their homes and China continuing to cement its grip over Tibet.
"Everyone knows my principle - knows (it is) completely non-violence. Violence is almost like suicide," the Nobel peace laureate said on Sunday.
Tibetan exile leader Samdhong Rinpoche also said the alternative to non-violence was difficult to even contemplate, saying: "I cannot easily believe the Tibetan people would resort to violence."
But Lhagyal Tsering, a teacher in Dharamshala, signalled many of the over 100,000 refugees living in India may start looking elsewhere for leadership.
"We're demanding a peace dialogue between His Holiness and the Chinese. But at the moment, Dalai Lama is out of the picture. It's a Tibetan people's movement," he said.
The speaker of the Tibetan parliament-in-exile, Karma Chophel - who is a radical often at odds with the Dalai Lama - called for unity.
"We should all recognise that the situation is very urgent. Whether the middle way or something else, we should get together," he said.
Meanwhile, India on Monday pressed neighbouring China for a "non-violent" solution to unrest in Tibet, as opposition lawmakers stormed out of parliament saying New Delhi's response was insufficient.
"We are distressed by reports of the unsettled situation and violence in Lhasa," Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee told parliament.
"We hope all those involved will work to improve the situation and remove the causes of such trouble in Tibet... through dialogue and non-violent means." - AFP/de
18 March 2008 0237 hrs
source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp.../335630/1/.html
DHARAMSHALA, India : Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama came in for tough criticism on Monday from prominent radical exiles demanding a review of his non-violent campaign for autonomy within China.
The leader of the pro-independence Tibetan Youth Congress publicly criticised his refusal to call for a boycott of the Beijing Olympics and urged protests in the Himalayan region to continue.
Tsewang Rigzin said an explosion of protests and rioting in the vast Himalayan region signalled the 72-year-old Dalai Lama, who has lived in northern Indian since fleeing Tibet after a failed uprising in 1959, was out of step with his people.
"China does not deserve to host the Olympics. Human-rights issues inside Tibet have deteriorated. It's evident they do not deserve the Olympics," Rigzin told reporters in Dharamshala, the hilltop base of the Tibetan exile community.
The Dalai Lama had on Sunday condemned China's "rule of terror" and "cultural genocide" in Tibet, but said Beijing should be "reminded to be a good host" of the Olympics - and did not call for a boycott.
According to Tibetan exile leaders and aides to the Dalai Lama, the Chinese crackdown in Tibet left about 100 Tibetans dead, though it could be "hundreds."
China has rejected those estimates, saying on Monday that Tibetan rioters killed 13 "innocent civilians" during the protests and also said it did not use lethal force to quell the rioting.
Rigzin said there was now mounting frustration among Tibetans over the Dalai Lama's so-called "Middle Way" policy - a non-violent campaign for autonomy rather than independence for his homeland, a region that China considers to be an undisputed part of its territory.
"I disagree with his stance," Rigzin said.
"There is a ground frustration within the Tibetan community, especially in the young generation. After six years of dialogue (with Beijing), there are still fundamental differences," the prominent activist said.
"There are a lot of frustrations. I certainly hope the Middle Way approach will be reviewed," Rigzin said. "As we can see from the protests here and all over the world, the Tibetan people remain committed to achieving independence."
The ever-cheerful Dalai Lama argues his approach is the most realistic, with China certain to never give up its sovereignty over Tibet.
But many younger Tibetans say this considered approach has not yielded any results, with his people continuing to flee their homes and China continuing to cement its grip over Tibet.
"Everyone knows my principle - knows (it is) completely non-violence. Violence is almost like suicide," the Nobel peace laureate said on Sunday.
Tibetan exile leader Samdhong Rinpoche also said the alternative to non-violence was difficult to even contemplate, saying: "I cannot easily believe the Tibetan people would resort to violence."
But Lhagyal Tsering, a teacher in Dharamshala, signalled many of the over 100,000 refugees living in India may start looking elsewhere for leadership.
"We're demanding a peace dialogue between His Holiness and the Chinese. But at the moment, Dalai Lama is out of the picture. It's a Tibetan people's movement," he said.
The speaker of the Tibetan parliament-in-exile, Karma Chophel - who is a radical often at odds with the Dalai Lama - called for unity.
"We should all recognise that the situation is very urgent. Whether the middle way or something else, we should get together," he said.
Meanwhile, India on Monday pressed neighbouring China for a "non-violent" solution to unrest in Tibet, as opposition lawmakers stormed out of parliament saying New Delhi's response was insufficient.
"We are distressed by reports of the unsettled situation and violence in Lhasa," Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee told parliament.
"We hope all those involved will work to improve the situation and remove the causes of such trouble in Tibet... through dialogue and non-violent means." - AFP/de
QUOTE
Tibet borders sealed in advance of surrender deadline
Aileen McCabe
Canwest News Asia Correspondent
Monday, March 17, 2008
source: http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/st...85-4ec1a2c7a951
SHANGHAI - China has effectively closed Tibet to foreigners as it prepares to deal with protesters in the aftermath of last week's riots in Lhasa.
Qiangba Puncog, governor of the Tibet Autonomous Region, told reporters in Beijing on Monday that "because of the arson and murders which have taken place in Tibet, we do not advise foreign news organizations or foreign nationals to go to Tibet for safety reasons."
His moderate words couched the reality that no foreigners are allowed into the region without specific permission from Beijing.
Qiangba said foreign businesses had not been told to leave Tibet, but over the weekend foreign tourists were systematically evacuated. Soon after the violence broke out in Lhasa on Friday, authorities began "urging" visitors to leave and by Sunday travel agents were reporting that existing travel permits for Tibet were cancelled and no new permits are being issued.
Many of the eyewitness reports of the marches by Buddhist monks that began peacefully last Monday, continued throughout the week and finally erupted into violence on Friday, were provided by tourists since foreign reporters are rarely allowed to visit the vast region often called the rooftop of the world.
The Chinese authorities gave Tibetan demonstrators until midnight Monday to turn themselves in and identify their fellow protesters. The order said "those who confess before March 17 will get leniency and cannot be prosecuted."
It added: "Citizens who declare and expose these criminals will be protected and rewarded."
Qiangba told reporters that Chinese authorities have confirmed 13 "innocent civilians" were killed by the Tibetan protesters and many police wounded, but throughout the melee security forces acted with restraint.
"Throughout the process they did not carry or use any lethal weapons. I can tell you as a responsible official that guns were absolutely not fired. The PLA (People's Liberation Army) was not involved at all in dealing with the incident," Qiangba said.
His version of events differs sharply with reports by eyewitnesses and the intelligence gathered by advocacy groups, including the government-in-exile in India led by the Dalai Lama.
These groups talk of gunfire heard on the streets during the riots on Friday and the Dalai Lama's spokesman puts the death toll at 80, including monks and many ethnic Tibetans.
Nor did Qiangba mention the protests that have erupted outside Tibet, in neighbouring Sichuan and Gansu provinces, both home to large Tibetan populations.
The Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy says at least eight protesters have been killed in Sichuan and that students who staged demonstrations Monday urging the return on the Dalai Lama were severely beaten by police.
The Indian based non-governmental organization also reported Monday that Chinese soldiers were breaking up Tibetan religious ceremonies and keeping a close watch on peaceful vigils.
Canada has joined the growing chorus of western governments to "urge restraint" by the Chinese in their dealings with the protesters.
Lhadon Tethong, who was born and raised in Victoria and is now executive director of the New York-based Students for a Free Tibet, is begging Canadians to become involved in the struggle.
She's watching the situation from Dharamshala, the headquarters of the Dalai Lama's government in exile.
"I would like every Canadian to contact their elected representatives and ask them to speak to the Canadian government to put more pressure on China," Tethong said. Also, call the Chinese Embassy in Ottawa, asking them to stop the crackdown and respect human rights, Tethong suggested.
He urged Canadians to contact the International Olympic Committee and ask them to cancel plans to take the Olympic torch through Tibet, she said.
"It would add insult to injury. It could set off an explosive situation in Tibet and it would be such an insult," she said.
The atmosphere in Dharamshala, where there are about 10,000 Tibetans, is one of doom and dread, mixed with pride at how some Tibetans are risking their lives by speaking out, said Tethong, who said she had just been handed a photograph smuggled out from Kirti Monastery in Eastern Tibet of the bodies of two young boys, a monk and an old man.
"It is such a jumble of emotions," she said.
In Washington, Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier said: "We condemn what is happening right now in Tibet and we urge the Chinese government, the Chinese authorities, to respect the freedom of association, the freedom of religion, the freedom of speech for all Tibetans."
Asked about calls for a boycott of the Summer Olympics in Beijing because of the Tibet situation, Bernier said it was "too early" to contemplate the possibility.
"It would be too early to let you know about the Olympics," Bernier said. "I cannot tell you right now what would be our position."
An aide to Bernier, asked later to clarify whether a boycott was on the table, said firmly "it's not under consideration."
In New York, the UN secretary general called for a peaceful resolution to the conflict.
Ban Ki-moon told reporters he had met with the Chinese ambassador to the international organization, but said there were no plans for the UN to intervene.
"I'm increasingly concerned about the tensions and reports of violence and loss of life in Tibet and elsewhere,"_Moon said, according to the Associated Press. "At this time I urge restraint on the part of the authorities, and call on all concerned to avoid further confrontation and violence. And I stress the importance of a peaceful resolution.
A UN spokeswoman, meanwhile, told the BBC, the organization had no way to verify wildly differing claims about the extent of the violence.
"We have completely conflicting numbers in terms of how many people died," said Michele Montas.
In China, news about Tibet has been severely restricted. YouTube was blocked after someone posted a video of the rioting in Lhasa. CNN has been cut in some areas and, on the Internet, attempts to access Mandarin blogs about Tibet are fruitless. Even if you use a proxy server to access the blog, the content has been deleted before you get there.
It's a curious reaction by the Chinese Internet censors because clearly the Tibetans did go on a rampage last Friday. There are pictures and reports of them marching through the central business district, wielding knives and setting fire to Chinese shops. Accounts that have been reported in the Chinese media have bolstered anti-Tibetan sentiment.
The government's argument that the protesters are a "Dalai clique" and "splittest" is generally accepted here.
But obviously the Chinese don't want their home audience to know anything about the varying death tolls and claims that the security officials were more brutal than Qiangba was prepared to admit.
Foreign journalists were also being tossed from the area, according to reports. The New York based Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) said six Hong Kong broadcasters were expelled from Lhasa Monday, a move roundly criticized by the media advocacy group.
"China pledged to allow foreign and local journalists full freedom to report on news events when they were awarded the Olympics. But the media regulations are being violated and the pledges have not been met," CPJ Executive Director Joel Simon said in a statement Monday. "We call on Beijing to act on their promise to relax media restrictions and allow journalists to gather information about this important story."
The media ejections were part of a larger effort to clear Tibet of outsiders, according to the British newspaper the Independent.
Sources told the Independent's China correspondent, the last foreign journalists and NGOs were being taken out of the city Monday.
At his headquarters in Dharamshala on Monday, the Dalai Lama came in for rare criticism from his supporters.
Leaders of the Tibetan Youth Congress lamented his reluctance to support a boycott of this summer's Beijing Olympics and called for the demonstrations in Lhasa to continue.
"China does not deserve to host the Olympics. Human rights issues inside Tibet have deteriorated. It's evident that they do not deserve the Olympics," Tsewang Rigzin, president of the congress told reporters.
The Dalai Lama's moderate "middle way" has won support for his cause from government's around the world but not brought the "Tibet problem" any closer to a solution than it was when the Chinese Communists annexed it in 1951.
With file from Sheldon Alberts, Canwest News Washington Correspondent.
Aileen McCabe
Canwest News Asia Correspondent
Monday, March 17, 2008
source: http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/st...85-4ec1a2c7a951
SHANGHAI - China has effectively closed Tibet to foreigners as it prepares to deal with protesters in the aftermath of last week's riots in Lhasa.
Qiangba Puncog, governor of the Tibet Autonomous Region, told reporters in Beijing on Monday that "because of the arson and murders which have taken place in Tibet, we do not advise foreign news organizations or foreign nationals to go to Tibet for safety reasons."
His moderate words couched the reality that no foreigners are allowed into the region without specific permission from Beijing.
Qiangba said foreign businesses had not been told to leave Tibet, but over the weekend foreign tourists were systematically evacuated. Soon after the violence broke out in Lhasa on Friday, authorities began "urging" visitors to leave and by Sunday travel agents were reporting that existing travel permits for Tibet were cancelled and no new permits are being issued.
Many of the eyewitness reports of the marches by Buddhist monks that began peacefully last Monday, continued throughout the week and finally erupted into violence on Friday, were provided by tourists since foreign reporters are rarely allowed to visit the vast region often called the rooftop of the world.
The Chinese authorities gave Tibetan demonstrators until midnight Monday to turn themselves in and identify their fellow protesters. The order said "those who confess before March 17 will get leniency and cannot be prosecuted."
It added: "Citizens who declare and expose these criminals will be protected and rewarded."
Qiangba told reporters that Chinese authorities have confirmed 13 "innocent civilians" were killed by the Tibetan protesters and many police wounded, but throughout the melee security forces acted with restraint.
"Throughout the process they did not carry or use any lethal weapons. I can tell you as a responsible official that guns were absolutely not fired. The PLA (People's Liberation Army) was not involved at all in dealing with the incident," Qiangba said.
His version of events differs sharply with reports by eyewitnesses and the intelligence gathered by advocacy groups, including the government-in-exile in India led by the Dalai Lama.
These groups talk of gunfire heard on the streets during the riots on Friday and the Dalai Lama's spokesman puts the death toll at 80, including monks and many ethnic Tibetans.
Nor did Qiangba mention the protests that have erupted outside Tibet, in neighbouring Sichuan and Gansu provinces, both home to large Tibetan populations.
The Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy says at least eight protesters have been killed in Sichuan and that students who staged demonstrations Monday urging the return on the Dalai Lama were severely beaten by police.
The Indian based non-governmental organization also reported Monday that Chinese soldiers were breaking up Tibetan religious ceremonies and keeping a close watch on peaceful vigils.
Canada has joined the growing chorus of western governments to "urge restraint" by the Chinese in their dealings with the protesters.
Lhadon Tethong, who was born and raised in Victoria and is now executive director of the New York-based Students for a Free Tibet, is begging Canadians to become involved in the struggle.
She's watching the situation from Dharamshala, the headquarters of the Dalai Lama's government in exile.
"I would like every Canadian to contact their elected representatives and ask them to speak to the Canadian government to put more pressure on China," Tethong said. Also, call the Chinese Embassy in Ottawa, asking them to stop the crackdown and respect human rights, Tethong suggested.
He urged Canadians to contact the International Olympic Committee and ask them to cancel plans to take the Olympic torch through Tibet, she said.
"It would add insult to injury. It could set off an explosive situation in Tibet and it would be such an insult," she said.
The atmosphere in Dharamshala, where there are about 10,000 Tibetans, is one of doom and dread, mixed with pride at how some Tibetans are risking their lives by speaking out, said Tethong, who said she had just been handed a photograph smuggled out from Kirti Monastery in Eastern Tibet of the bodies of two young boys, a monk and an old man.
"It is such a jumble of emotions," she said.
In Washington, Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier said: "We condemn what is happening right now in Tibet and we urge the Chinese government, the Chinese authorities, to respect the freedom of association, the freedom of religion, the freedom of speech for all Tibetans."
Asked about calls for a boycott of the Summer Olympics in Beijing because of the Tibet situation, Bernier said it was "too early" to contemplate the possibility.
"It would be too early to let you know about the Olympics," Bernier said. "I cannot tell you right now what would be our position."
An aide to Bernier, asked later to clarify whether a boycott was on the table, said firmly "it's not under consideration."
In New York, the UN secretary general called for a peaceful resolution to the conflict.
Ban Ki-moon told reporters he had met with the Chinese ambassador to the international organization, but said there were no plans for the UN to intervene.
"I'm increasingly concerned about the tensions and reports of violence and loss of life in Tibet and elsewhere,"_Moon said, according to the Associated Press. "At this time I urge restraint on the part of the authorities, and call on all concerned to avoid further confrontation and violence. And I stress the importance of a peaceful resolution.
A UN spokeswoman, meanwhile, told the BBC, the organization had no way to verify wildly differing claims about the extent of the violence.
"We have completely conflicting numbers in terms of how many people died," said Michele Montas.
In China, news about Tibet has been severely restricted. YouTube was blocked after someone posted a video of the rioting in Lhasa. CNN has been cut in some areas and, on the Internet, attempts to access Mandarin blogs about Tibet are fruitless. Even if you use a proxy server to access the blog, the content has been deleted before you get there.
It's a curious reaction by the Chinese Internet censors because clearly the Tibetans did go on a rampage last Friday. There are pictures and reports of them marching through the central business district, wielding knives and setting fire to Chinese shops. Accounts that have been reported in the Chinese media have bolstered anti-Tibetan sentiment.
The government's argument that the protesters are a "Dalai clique" and "splittest" is generally accepted here.
But obviously the Chinese don't want their home audience to know anything about the varying death tolls and claims that the security officials were more brutal than Qiangba was prepared to admit.
Foreign journalists were also being tossed from the area, according to reports. The New York based Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) said six Hong Kong broadcasters were expelled from Lhasa Monday, a move roundly criticized by the media advocacy group.
"China pledged to allow foreign and local journalists full freedom to report on news events when they were awarded the Olympics. But the media regulations are being violated and the pledges have not been met," CPJ Executive Director Joel Simon said in a statement Monday. "We call on Beijing to act on their promise to relax media restrictions and allow journalists to gather information about this important story."
The media ejections were part of a larger effort to clear Tibet of outsiders, according to the British newspaper the Independent.
Sources told the Independent's China correspondent, the last foreign journalists and NGOs were being taken out of the city Monday.
At his headquarters in Dharamshala on Monday, the Dalai Lama came in for rare criticism from his supporters.
Leaders of the Tibetan Youth Congress lamented his reluctance to support a boycott of this summer's Beijing Olympics and called for the demonstrations in Lhasa to continue.
"China does not deserve to host the Olympics. Human rights issues inside Tibet have deteriorated. It's evident that they do not deserve the Olympics," Tsewang Rigzin, president of the congress told reporters.
The Dalai Lama's moderate "middle way" has won support for his cause from government's around the world but not brought the "Tibet problem" any closer to a solution than it was when the Chinese Communists annexed it in 1951.
With file from Sheldon Alberts, Canwest News Washington Correspondent.
V Thanks for that. And I'm sorry, I meant to say biased. I was confused.
^ Each person only has limited knowledge, and a person's own bias causes him/her to find and believe sources that conform to established beliefs. There is no such thing as an unbiased source, it's simply another historian with a different outlook.
And people wonder why conflict is endless when everyone is pointing fingers at a differing opinion
And people wonder why conflict is endless when everyone is pointing fingers at a differing opinion
"When the Americans go hunting Al-Qaeda.....it's called counter-terrorism.
When us Chinese go hunting insurrectionists....it's called what? Repression?
When the Americans use extraordinary rendition and torture tactics, they justify it in the name of terrorism prevention.
When us Chinese do similar things, they accuse us of human rights abuses."
When us Chinese go hunting insurrectionists....it's called what? Repression?
When the Americans use extraordinary rendition and torture tactics, they justify it in the name of terrorism prevention.
When us Chinese do similar things, they accuse us of human rights abuses."
i think there were more than 10 deaths..
-berry <3
-berry <3
wat opportunists. taking advantage of the vulnerable vacuum in china atm coz of olympic hype?
tibet's mutiny-ing to deface china's olympic dream
at least china doesnt go claiming aboriginalz dapple in rape on a daily basis . australia
tibet's mutiny-ing to deface china's olympic dream
at least china doesnt go claiming aboriginalz dapple in rape on a daily basis . australia
The Tibetans protested peacefully for 50 years, it sickens me how some posters on Soompi don't get that. What is happening here is essentially 50 years of repressive measures and their result boiling over. Either way, I agree daming Chinese stores and hitting Chinese shouldn't have been done in revenge, but China took their country, and treats the Tibetans way differently than anywhere in China. Chinese people don't realise that Tibet is like the old China compared to Beijing and Shanghai life. It's not the same! Leading up to the violence in Tibet, many Tibetan monks who were protesting peacefully were abducted from the Jokhang temple area and beaten and imprisoned just for saying a few words, nothing more. This is the revenge for that and over 50 years of Tibetan peacefulness. Tibetans tried to negotiate and the world and China didn't help us. Tibetans have the most peaceful and wise leader in the Dalai Lama and China didn't take it, this is what happens when China ignores 50 years of patience and peace I regrettably admit. You can't take 50 years of patience for granted, especially after China took their land (no matter if China claims Tibet since the 13th century they did not have more than a thousand or so Chinese in Tibet before 1949, think about it ask one Chinese if they are mountain people, if they have ancestors generations and generations from Tibet, NO THEY DID NOT is the answer, claim it all they want, but Tibetans are the ones who lived there, this is why there is so much confusion about Tibet's ownership, China claimed it, Tibetans lived there, Chinese just moved in there post 1949!), China also killed millions of Tibetans, and then through their propaganda today they show Tibetans beating up Chinese just to make Chinese mad at Tibetans! Ridiculous! You got our land and killed our people, and we gave you peace, we gave you a chance and listened to the Dalai Lama to be peaceful for 50 years, and this is thanks we get. Tibetans get violent for one moment, and now all of a sudden Chinese are mad at us! Screw that! Free Tibet! Keep fighting for freedom until were all dead if that's what it takes, we do not endorse violence, but the world will only listen to us if we do violence, absolute crap! Think about it people! 50 years of peace and now China does this propaganda crap to us! Check out these pictures of what happened to Tibetans in the recent protests, you cannot believe the Chinese Communist government. Remember Champa Phuntsok the regional Chairman of Tibet, also known as China's puppet leader in Tibet, he told WITH A STRAIGHT FACE TO THE WORLD MEDIA IN A RECENT PRESS CONFERENCE, we DID NOT SHOOT WITH GUNS AT TIBETANS! lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just because you kicked out all the foreign media, stopped the train to tibet and sent tourists back on planes, doesn't mean Tibetans can't use other means to get information out. Please take a look:
http://www.phayul.com/photogallery/flash/2008/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMrSpVXnkyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXHYEJOzeeE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifk6aaLDmME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cEQQiVC_Yw
To China: you took our country, fine, you killed our people, fine....at least change to a democracy (so that other Chinese can freely get information on Tibet and the Dalai Lama) and give us human rights, that's all, you have our country, let us free at least!
http://www.phayul.com/photogallery/flash/2008/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMrSpVXnkyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXHYEJOzeeE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifk6aaLDmME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cEQQiVC_Yw
To China: you took our country, fine, you killed our people, fine....at least change to a democracy (so that other Chinese can freely get information on Tibet and the Dalai Lama) and give us human rights, that's all, you have our country, let us free at least!
My curiosity is how will Tibet economically, in the long-term, if it has independence.
QUOTE (sensitiveboy @ Mar 18 2008, 01:01 AM)
The Tibetans protested peacefully for 50 years, it sickens me how some posters on Soompi don't get that. What is happening here is essentially 50 years of repressive measures and their result boiling over. Either way, I agree daming Chinese stores and hitting Chinese shouldn't have been done in revenge, but China took their country, and treats the Tibetans way differently than anywhere in China. Chinese people don't realise that Tibet is like the old China compared to Beijing and Shanghai life. It's not the same! Leading up to the violence in Tibet, many Tibetan monks who were protesting peacefully were abducted from the Jokhang temple area and beaten and imprisoned just for saying a few words, nothing more. This is the revenge for that and over 50 years of Tibetan peacefulness. Tibetans tried to negotiate and the world and China didn't help us. Tibetans have the most peaceful and wise leader in the Dalai Lama and China didn't take it, this is what happens when China ignores 50 years of patience and peace I regrettably admit. You can't take 50 years of patience for granted, especially after China took their land (no matter if China claims Tibet since the 13th century they did not have more than a thousand or so Chinese in Tibet before 1949, think about it ask one Chinese if they are mountain people, if they have ancestors generations and generations from Tibet, NO THEY DID NOT is the answer, claim it all they want, but Tibetans are the ones who lived there, this is why there is so much confusion about Tibet's ownership, China claimed it, Tibetans lived there, Chinese just moved in there post 1949!), China also killed millions of Tibetans, and then through their propaganda today they show Tibetans beating up Chinese just to make Chinese mad at Tibetans! Ridiculous! You got our land and killed our people, and we gave you peace, we gave you a chance and listened to the Dalai Lama to be peaceful for 50 years, and this is thanks we get. Tibetans get violent for one moment, and now all of a sudden Chinese are mad at us! Screw that! Free Tibet! Keep fighting for freedom until were all dead if that's what it takes, we do not endorse violence, but the world will only listen to us if we do violence, absolute crap! Think about it people! 50 years of peace and now China does this propaganda crap to us! Check out these pictures of what happened to Tibetans in the recent protests, you cannot believe the Chinese Communist government. Remember Champa Phuntsok the regional Chairman of Tibet, also known as China's puppet leader in Tibet, he told WITH A STRAIGHT FACE TO THE WORLD MEDIA IN A RECENT PRESS CONFERENCE, we DID NOT SHOOT WITH GUNS AT TIBETANS! lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just because you kicked out all the foreign media, stopped the train to tibet and sent tourists back on planes, doesn't mean Tibetans can't use other means to get information out. Please take a look:
To China: you took our country, fine, you killed our people, fine....at least change to a democracy (so that other Chinese can freely get information on Tibet and the Dalai Lama) and give us human rights, that's all, you have our country, let us free at least!
To China: you took our country, fine, you killed our people, fine....at least change to a democracy (so that other Chinese can freely get information on Tibet and the Dalai Lama) and give us human rights, that's all, you have our country, let us free at least!
what is not to get? Its a country's duty to uphold any protest and riot. you complain that Tibetans are being treated unfairly? Guess what? not only Tibet are being treated unfairly. Many Chinese people were killed too during the cultural revolution. What makes you think Tibet should have the upper hand of having basic human rights than rest of the citizens in China? Asking for democracy is too much for China. You realize many countries went through steps to achieve what they are today? US went through many of Civil lawsuits to become what it was today. China is going through steps right now. you can't just expect them to become democratic and reform right away. they have only opened up for about 20 years. So far the way i see it is more people dying by killing each other than army killing civilians.
QUOTE (Fuznut88 @ Mar 17 2008, 11:03 PM)
what is not to get? Its a country's duty to uphold any protest and riot. you complain that Tibetans are being treated unfairly? Guess what? not only Tibet are being treated unfairly. Many Chinese people were killed too during the cultural revolution. What makes you think Tibet should have the upper hand of having basic human rights than rest of the citizens in China? Asking for democracy is too much for China. You realize many countries went through steps to achieve what they are today? US went through many of Civil lawsuits to become what it was today. China is going through steps right now. you can't just expect them to become democratic and reform right away. they have only opened up for about 20 years. So far the way i see it is more people dying by killing each other than army killing civilians.
i have to agree with you.
if tibet does have democracy, it ain't going to get it right away.
Fuznut88 I agree with your posts whole-heartedly. You have left me with nothing more to say.
Anyway let's just hope Tibet will come to its senses and realise no matter what it does it will never be independent. The violence has to stop. I don't see China letting Tibet go, ever.
Anyway let's just hope Tibet will come to its senses and realise no matter what it does it will never be independent. The violence has to stop. I don't see China letting Tibet go, ever.
Dalai Lama offers to resign if Tibet situation worsens
18 March 2008 1709 hrs
source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp.../335758/1/.html
DHARAMSHALA, India : The Dalai Lama on Tuesday appealed for calm in Tibet and "good relations" with China, but offered to quit as head of the exile movement if violence in the region worsens.
The Nobel Peace laureate, 72, said Tibetans and Chinese needed to live "side by side," urged his countrymen not to resort to violence and reiterated he was not pushing for his remote Himalayan homeland to split from China.
"We must build good relations with the Chinese," the Tibetan Buddhist spiritual leader told reporters in Dharamshala in northern India. "We should not develop anti-Chinese feelings. We must live together side by side."
"Don't commit violence, it is not good. Violence is against human nature, violence is almost suicide. Even if 1,000 Tibetans sacrifice their lives, it will not help," he said, stressing that "independence is out of the question".
But he said he was not in a position to tell Tibetans living under Chinese rule to "do this or do not do that".
"This movement is beyond our control," he said of the unrest in Tibet, which saw protests escalate into rioting and prompted a major Chinese security clampdown.
"If things are getting out of control, then the option is to completely resign... resignation is the only option," he told reporters.
He also said Chinese officials were welcome to visit him and investigate their charges that his India-based exile movement was behind the anti-Chinese unrest that erupted in Tibet last week.
"Come here, please investigate the facts. The Chinese can come look at everything," he said.
China blamed Tibetan "mobs" for the deaths of 13 people in violent anti-Chinese rioting on Friday, while Tibetan exile groups have said around 100 people, possibly many more, were killed as China quashed the protests.
Earlier Tuesday, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said Beijing will only hold talks with the Dalai Lama if he gives up independence ambitions, and also blamed him for the unrest.
Tibet's spiritual leader has consistently denied Chinese charges that he is a separatist, and insists that he only wants a high degree of autonomy for Tibet under Chinese rule.
But his "Middle Way" policy - espousing non-violence and autonomy - has left him facing increasing criticism from younger, more radical exiled Tibetans.
"I admitted it failed to bring positive results inside Tibet," the Dalai Lama said of the policy, but said demands for complete independence were unrealistic.
"I ask them how to get independence. I have no answer," he said of the radical exiles. - AFP/ch
18 March 2008 1709 hrs
source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp.../335758/1/.html
DHARAMSHALA, India : The Dalai Lama on Tuesday appealed for calm in Tibet and "good relations" with China, but offered to quit as head of the exile movement if violence in the region worsens.
The Nobel Peace laureate, 72, said Tibetans and Chinese needed to live "side by side," urged his countrymen not to resort to violence and reiterated he was not pushing for his remote Himalayan homeland to split from China.
"We must build good relations with the Chinese," the Tibetan Buddhist spiritual leader told reporters in Dharamshala in northern India. "We should not develop anti-Chinese feelings. We must live together side by side."
"Don't commit violence, it is not good. Violence is against human nature, violence is almost suicide. Even if 1,000 Tibetans sacrifice their lives, it will not help," he said, stressing that "independence is out of the question".
But he said he was not in a position to tell Tibetans living under Chinese rule to "do this or do not do that".
"This movement is beyond our control," he said of the unrest in Tibet, which saw protests escalate into rioting and prompted a major Chinese security clampdown.
"If things are getting out of control, then the option is to completely resign... resignation is the only option," he told reporters.
He also said Chinese officials were welcome to visit him and investigate their charges that his India-based exile movement was behind the anti-Chinese unrest that erupted in Tibet last week.
"Come here, please investigate the facts. The Chinese can come look at everything," he said.
China blamed Tibetan "mobs" for the deaths of 13 people in violent anti-Chinese rioting on Friday, while Tibetan exile groups have said around 100 people, possibly many more, were killed as China quashed the protests.
Earlier Tuesday, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said Beijing will only hold talks with the Dalai Lama if he gives up independence ambitions, and also blamed him for the unrest.
Tibet's spiritual leader has consistently denied Chinese charges that he is a separatist, and insists that he only wants a high degree of autonomy for Tibet under Chinese rule.
But his "Middle Way" policy - espousing non-violence and autonomy - has left him facing increasing criticism from younger, more radical exiled Tibetans.
"I admitted it failed to bring positive results inside Tibet," the Dalai Lama said of the policy, but said demands for complete independence were unrealistic.
"I ask them how to get independence. I have no answer," he said of the radical exiles. - AFP/ch
QUOTE (mashimaro_is_luff @ Mar 15 2008, 03:37 PM)
china is leaning toward revolution... but with this rate it probably gonna take another 100 years
There is great piece by Pierre at www.allvoices.com about Tibet being the next Palestine. He implies China will become the next Israel. Tibet the next Palestine
sigh this whole thing. It's March, there's just ppl making China's image look even worse than it already is. Face it, there's ppl that doesn't like them holding the Olympic after all so they target them with politics. What's there to say? Speechless.
QUOTE
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080319/ap_on_...msyas0NUEChina: Tibet a 'life-and-death' battle
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press Writers
10 minutes ago
China called the Dalai Lama a "wolf in monk's robes" Wednesday and said it was locked in a "life-and-death battle" with his supporters after protests marking the biggest challenge to Chinese rule in Tibet in almost two decades.
State media, meanwhile, reported more than 100 people had surrendered to police in and around Tibet's regional capital of Lhasa, where peaceful protests turned violent Friday.
The protests, which Beijing has accused the Dalai Lama of orchestrating, have focused international attention on China's human rights record ahead of this summer's Olympic Games in Beijing. The U.S. has called on China to address Tibetans' grievances and engage in direct talks with the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled Buddhist leader.
But China has angrily rejected all calls for dialogue, and Tibet's hardline Communist Party chief was quoted Wednesday in a particularly viscous attack on the Dalai Lama.
"The Dalai is a wolf in monk's robes, a devil with a human face but the heart of a beast," Zhang Qingli was quoted in the Tibet Daily as saying at a meeting of the Tibet government.
"We are now engaged in a fierce blood-and-fire battle with the Dalai clique, a life-and-death battle between us and the enemy," Zhang said.
On Tuesday, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao accused the Dalai Lama's supporters of organizing the violent clashes in hopes of sabotaging the Olympics and bolstering their campaign for independence in the Himalayan territory.
The communist government has promised leniency for protesters who handed themselves in — and pledged to harshly punish those who did not.
"Those criminals ... shouldn't think they can get lucky. All criminals will definitely be caught in the net," the official Tibet Daily newspaper said on its Web site.
It was impossible to confirm the reports of surrender, and no figures were given for people hunted down and arrested.
Foreign media are banned from Tibet, and China's entirely state-controlled media have reported only the official version of events, in which the government has said rioters killed 16 people. The government said troops did not fire on protesters and has denied claims by overseas Tibetan groups that 80 were killed.
The official Xinhua News Agency said mobs smashed and torched shops, homes, banks, government schools and offices, along with dozens of vehicles, setting fires in more than 300 locations. Xinhua said losses to businesses were estimated at more than $14 million.
Police barred foreigners from traveling to areas outside Tibet with large Tibetan populations and were seen removing Tibetans from vehicles traveling into lower lying areas populated mainly by Chinese.
Chinese forces occupied the Himalayan region in 1950 after several decades of effective independence.
Initially led by monks, the demonstrations began peacefully on March 10, the anniversary of a failed uprising in 1959 against Chinese rule, and then spiraled out of control.
The Dalai Lama, who fled Tibet during the uprising, has urged his followers to remain peaceful, saying he would resign as head of the Tibetan government-in-exile if violence got out of control. However, he also suggested China may have fomented unrest in the Lhasa and nearby provinces to discredit him.
Critics say China fuels such anger through harsh restrictions on Tibetan culture and Buddhism — including routine vilification of the Dalai Lama, who is deeply revered by most Tibetans. The government has also been accused of marginalizing Tibetans economically, in part by encouraging migration to Tibet by members of the Han Chinese ethnic majority.
Pope Benedict XVI appealed for dialogue and tolerance between Chinese and Tibetans and expressed "sadness and pain" for the violence in Tibet.
Because of the crackdown on protests, some Tibetan activist groups have argued that the Olympic torch relay should not go through Tibet. Beijing plans for the torch to be carried to the top of Mount Everest.
Organizing committee Executive Vice President Jiang Xiaoyu said the relay would go through Tibet as planned, saying the ascent to the top of the world's tallest mountain would be the "highlight" of the relay and "a great feat in Olympic history."
On Wednesday, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner backtracked on suggestions he was open to the idea of dignitaries boycotting the Games' opening ceremonies, calling the proposal "unrealistic."
Lhasa was reportedly calm on Wednesday and under a tight security presence that moved in over the weekend.
An employee of the local Coca-Cola bottler said a small demonstration was held in the city on Tuesday, but protesters had fled when troops arrived. He declined to give his name for fear of harassment from authorities.
He said the company had conducted no business since Friday when customers' shops and supermarkets had been attacked and looted.
Protests spilled over from Tibet into surrounding provinces in recent days, as police and soldiers set up checkpoints across a wide swath of western China.
Officers turned back an Associated Press photographer traveling west from Sichuan's provincial capital of Chengdu near the Wolong panda preserve. Officers said an order was issued Monday barring foreigners from all Tibetan areas in the province for 10 days.
An official with the Sichuan Foreign Affairs Department said no official notice had been issued, but said she had heard of two cases of police turning reporters away.
"I wouldn't suggest trying again," said the woman, who like many Chinese government workers, gave only her surname, Yuan.
China imposed a ban on tour groups traveling to Tibet last week, dealing a blow to the region's fast-growing tourist industries.
Officers were also seen pulling Tibetans in traditional dress off buses leaving Tibetan regions, searching their luggage and questioning them. It was not clear whether they were allowed to continue their journeys.
Tibetans in the Nepalese capital of Katmandu tried to enter an area where the United Nations offices are located, but were stopped by police.
In Bangkok, about 20 demonstrators unfurled a Tibetan flag outside the Chinese Embassy and called on Beijing to "immediately stop the killing and human rights abuses" in Tibet.
Copyright © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
Copyright © 2008 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press Writers
10 minutes ago
China called the Dalai Lama a "wolf in monk's robes" Wednesday and said it was locked in a "life-and-death battle" with his supporters after protests marking the biggest challenge to Chinese rule in Tibet in almost two decades.
State media, meanwhile, reported more than 100 people had surrendered to police in and around Tibet's regional capital of Lhasa, where peaceful protests turned violent Friday.
The protests, which Beijing has accused the Dalai Lama of orchestrating, have focused international attention on China's human rights record ahead of this summer's Olympic Games in Beijing. The U.S. has called on China to address Tibetans' grievances and engage in direct talks with the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled Buddhist leader.
But China has angrily rejected all calls for dialogue, and Tibet's hardline Communist Party chief was quoted Wednesday in a particularly viscous attack on the Dalai Lama.
"The Dalai is a wolf in monk's robes, a devil with a human face but the heart of a beast," Zhang Qingli was quoted in the Tibet Daily as saying at a meeting of the Tibet government.
"We are now engaged in a fierce blood-and-fire battle with the Dalai clique, a life-and-death battle between us and the enemy," Zhang said.
On Tuesday, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao accused the Dalai Lama's supporters of organizing the violent clashes in hopes of sabotaging the Olympics and bolstering their campaign for independence in the Himalayan territory.
The communist government has promised leniency for protesters who handed themselves in — and pledged to harshly punish those who did not.
"Those criminals ... shouldn't think they can get lucky. All criminals will definitely be caught in the net," the official Tibet Daily newspaper said on its Web site.
It was impossible to confirm the reports of surrender, and no figures were given for people hunted down and arrested.
Foreign media are banned from Tibet, and China's entirely state-controlled media have reported only the official version of events, in which the government has said rioters killed 16 people. The government said troops did not fire on protesters and has denied claims by overseas Tibetan groups that 80 were killed.
The official Xinhua News Agency said mobs smashed and torched shops, homes, banks, government schools and offices, along with dozens of vehicles, setting fires in more than 300 locations. Xinhua said losses to businesses were estimated at more than $14 million.
Police barred foreigners from traveling to areas outside Tibet with large Tibetan populations and were seen removing Tibetans from vehicles traveling into lower lying areas populated mainly by Chinese.
Chinese forces occupied the Himalayan region in 1950 after several decades of effective independence.
Initially led by monks, the demonstrations began peacefully on March 10, the anniversary of a failed uprising in 1959 against Chinese rule, and then spiraled out of control.
The Dalai Lama, who fled Tibet during the uprising, has urged his followers to remain peaceful, saying he would resign as head of the Tibetan government-in-exile if violence got out of control. However, he also suggested China may have fomented unrest in the Lhasa and nearby provinces to discredit him.
Critics say China fuels such anger through harsh restrictions on Tibetan culture and Buddhism — including routine vilification of the Dalai Lama, who is deeply revered by most Tibetans. The government has also been accused of marginalizing Tibetans economically, in part by encouraging migration to Tibet by members of the Han Chinese ethnic majority.
Pope Benedict XVI appealed for dialogue and tolerance between Chinese and Tibetans and expressed "sadness and pain" for the violence in Tibet.
Because of the crackdown on protests, some Tibetan activist groups have argued that the Olympic torch relay should not go through Tibet. Beijing plans for the torch to be carried to the top of Mount Everest.
Organizing committee Executive Vice President Jiang Xiaoyu said the relay would go through Tibet as planned, saying the ascent to the top of the world's tallest mountain would be the "highlight" of the relay and "a great feat in Olympic history."
On Wednesday, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner backtracked on suggestions he was open to the idea of dignitaries boycotting the Games' opening ceremonies, calling the proposal "unrealistic."
Lhasa was reportedly calm on Wednesday and under a tight security presence that moved in over the weekend.
An employee of the local Coca-Cola bottler said a small demonstration was held in the city on Tuesday, but protesters had fled when troops arrived. He declined to give his name for fear of harassment from authorities.
He said the company had conducted no business since Friday when customers' shops and supermarkets had been attacked and looted.
Protests spilled over from Tibet into surrounding provinces in recent days, as police and soldiers set up checkpoints across a wide swath of western China.
Officers turned back an Associated Press photographer traveling west from Sichuan's provincial capital of Chengdu near the Wolong panda preserve. Officers said an order was issued Monday barring foreigners from all Tibetan areas in the province for 10 days.
An official with the Sichuan Foreign Affairs Department said no official notice had been issued, but said she had heard of two cases of police turning reporters away.
"I wouldn't suggest trying again," said the woman, who like many Chinese government workers, gave only her surname, Yuan.
China imposed a ban on tour groups traveling to Tibet last week, dealing a blow to the region's fast-growing tourist industries.
Officers were also seen pulling Tibetans in traditional dress off buses leaving Tibetan regions, searching their luggage and questioning them. It was not clear whether they were allowed to continue their journeys.
Tibetans in the Nepalese capital of Katmandu tried to enter an area where the United Nations offices are located, but were stopped by police.
In Bangkok, about 20 demonstrators unfurled a Tibetan flag outside the Chinese Embassy and called on Beijing to "immediately stop the killing and human rights abuses" in Tibet.
Copyright © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
Copyright © 2008 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
P.S. we would all be fools for believing everything the Chinese Government says.
QUOTE (foowdx3 @ Mar 17 2008, 08:56 AM)
of course. i agree that it's not right. HOWEVER, i also don't think it is right that certain other governments are supporting tibet to be independent and are criticizing china on human rights issues when these other governments have had the same past during the imperialism age (or even presently). the reason why i find it hypocritical is that when they did it, no one said anything and people recognize(d) it as completely legitimate. but when china does it, waves and waves of criticism come.
Like i said, if you read the papers, NO country is asking for Tibet's independence besides the Tibetian people themselves and people who support their cause. these governments are asking for leniency for the Tibetian people which is completely different. and what makes this whole situation hypocritical is the fact that China is crying a river over the Japanese occupation during WWII and their denial over the atrocities that happened during that time. yet they turn around and claim their take over of Tibet was neccessary and that they were 'liberating' the Tibetian people, something that they still claim to this day. The fact is, everyone and every government is a hypocrite so it's rather pointless to make an argument out of hypocricy and say governments shouldn't step in to do anything because it is hypocritical. if that were the case, there would be mass civil wars everywhere. there is no such thing as a perfect government, a perfect country whose history is devoid of hypocritical and evil acts.
QUOTE (Fuznut88 @ Mar 18 2008, 12:03 AM)
what is not to get? Its a country's duty to uphold any protest and riot. you complain that Tibetans are being treated unfairly? Guess what? not only Tibet are being treated unfairly. Many Chinese people were killed too during the cultural revolution. What makes you think Tibet should have the upper hand of having basic human rights than rest of the citizens in China? Asking for democracy is too much for China. You realize many countries went through steps to achieve what they are today? US went through many of Civil lawsuits to become what it was today. China is going through steps right now. you can't just expect them to become democratic and reform right away. they have only opened up for about 20 years. So far the way i see it is more people dying by killing each other than army killing civilians.
The thing is that not EVERY single person in China is being unfairly treated, their culture, language, beliefs being repressed. true China has a pretty bad history with human rights but in general, there are people who can live fairly freely within its border. tibet on the other hand is completely repressed, most people in that area are not allowed to express their religion, are not allowed to follow traditions for fear of persecution. i agree with you, China is making progress in some areas and you can't expect its government to suddenly free the people completely (it will lead to chaos), but it does not mean that in all areas China is dealing with the situation in a progressive direction. The fact that while people in mainland China do have certain rights and freedoms, such is not seen in Tibet.
QUOTE (apple920 @ Mar 19 2008, 01:04 PM)
The thing is that not EVERY single person in China is being unfairly treated, their culture, language, beliefs being repressed. true China has a pretty bad history with human rights but in general, there are people who can live fairly freely within its border. tibet on the other hand is completely repressed, most people in that area are not allowed to express their religion, are not allowed to follow traditions for fear of persecution. i agree with you, China is making progress in some areas and you can't expect its government to suddenly free the people completely (it will lead to chaos), but it does not mean that in all areas China is dealing with the situation in a progressive direction. The fact that while people in mainland China do have certain rights and freedoms, such is not seen in Tibet.
The only people that are treated fairly are the ones that don't wish for freedom of expression, the freedom of religious practice, the freedom of speech. The Chinese government treat their own citizens as chess pieces, as parts, not as people with free will. The people serve to self-perpetuate the existance of the Chinese government. There is no bill of rights, there is nothing that the Chinese people can claim, except for what the Party has chosen for them. The Party's main concern is not people, but expantion, urbanization, consollidation of power and control, and most of all, MONEY. The people of China are just expendable parts, ie, the means, towards that end.
QUOTE (apple920 @ Mar 19 2008, 01:04 PM)
Like i said, if you read the papers, NO country is asking for Tibet's independence besides the Tibetian people themselves and people who support their cause. these governments are asking for leniency for the Tibetian people which is completely different. and what makes this whole situation hypocritical is the fact that China is crying a river over the Japanese occupation during WWII and their denial over the atrocities that happened during that time. yet they turn around and claim their take over of Tibet was neccessary and that they were 'liberating' the Tibetian people, something that they still claim to this day. The fact is, everyone and every government is a hypocrite so it's rather pointless to make an argument out of hypocricy and say governments shouldn't step in to do anything because it is hypocritical. if that were the case, there would be mass civil wars everywhere. there is no such thing as a perfect government, a perfect country whose history is devoid of hypocritical and evil acts.
The thing is that not EVERY single person in China is being unfairly treated, their culture, language, beliefs being repressed. true China has a pretty bad history with human rights but in general, there are people who can live fairly freely within its border. Tibet on the other hand is completely repressed, most people in that area are not allowed to express their religion, are not allowed to follow traditions for fear of persecution. i agree with you, China is making progress in some areas and you can't expect its government to suddenly free the people completely (it will lead to chaos), but it does not mean that in all areas China is dealing with the situation in a progressive direction. The fact that while people in mainland China do have certain rights and freedoms, such is not seen in Tibet.
The thing is that not EVERY single person in China is being unfairly treated, their culture, language, beliefs being repressed. true China has a pretty bad history with human rights but in general, there are people who can live fairly freely within its border. Tibet on the other hand is completely repressed, most people in that area are not allowed to express their religion, are not allowed to follow traditions for fear of persecution. i agree with you, China is making progress in some areas and you can't expect its government to suddenly free the people completely (it will lead to chaos), but it does not mean that in all areas China is dealing with the situation in a progressive direction. The fact that while people in mainland China do have certain rights and freedoms, such is not seen in Tibet.
repressed? Have you ever been to tibet? While the government urbanized the area they allowed them preserve their culture. They built railroads, school academies, and a livable place for them. why do you think there are so many monastery or temples being preserved in Tibet? Did Chinese ever tell them to get the hell out of the land in the last 20 or 30 years? Stop thinking China is the old school communist. Instead of worrying other countries we American should be more worried about the war and how some of the soldiers are raping girls all over the country. yet we as Americans have failed to point that out in general? thats because no one likes it when they are being attacked on their own affairs. Its hypocritical that we are so blinded to worry about our own domestic affairs.
QUOTE (epark1281 @ Mar 19 2008, 01:18 PM)
The only people that are treated fairly are the ones that don't wish for freedom of expression, the freedom of religious practice, the freedom of speech. The Chinese government treat their own citizens as chess pieces, as parts, not as people with free will. The people serve to self-perpetuate the existance of the Chinese government. There is no bill of rights, there is nothing that the Chinese people can claim, except for what the Party has chosen for them. The Party's main concern is not people, but expantion, urbanization, consollidation of power and control, and most of all, MONEY. The people of China are just expendable parts, ie, the means, towards that end.
If you are saying people in china are chess pieces then so are we. We work NOT to help the economy and for money? We are a country built on capitalism. there is no such thing as freedom of speech and expression. There are things you can say and things you cannot say here too in America. I am no fan of CCP but they are doing a hell of a job keeping 1.3 billion people in control. Can you?
QUOTE (Fuznut88 @ Mar 19 2008, 01:59 PM)
If you are saying people in china are chess pieces then so are we. We work NOT to help the economy and for money? We are a country built on capitalism. there is no such thing as freedom of speech and expression. There are things you can say and things you cannot say here too in America. I am no fan of CCP but they are doing a hell of a job keeping 1.3 billion people in control. Can you?
We are chess pieces as well, but what we DO have here in America is our BILL OF RIGHTS. It's a ratified Legal, enforced document that allows us to claim rights as citizens. The people of China don't even have that.
QUOTE (epark1281 @ Mar 19 2008, 02:10 PM)
We are chess pieces as well, but what we DO have here in America is our BILL OF RIGHTS. It's a ratified Legal, enforced document that allows us to claim rights as citizens. The people of China don't even have that.
well good for us. Because we have been fighting for human rights for the last 100 something years. China? about 20 something years. I guess you think things can happen in a snap of a finger.
QUOTE (Fuznut88 @ Mar 19 2008, 02:32 PM)
well good for us. Because we have been fighting for human rights for the last 100 something years. China? about 20 something years. I guess you think things can happen in a snap of a finger.
excuse your attitude, but just because that's the way things are doesn't make it right. You may make assumptions of what i think of the Chinese government, but to blatantly excuse the lack of civil rights due to the fact that it took a long time to get where we are is wrong. I don't believe that things will happen at the "snap of a finger", but i DO NOT stand for accepting things for the way they are just because things take a long time to change. Don't try to assume you know what i'm thinking. I guess YOU think that some things are acceptable because it takes time and effort to change.
P.S.
The bill of rights has been around since 1789.
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