Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: I've Forgotten How To Make Friends.
soompi forums > soompi world > the real world (20+ ONLY)
Pages: 1, 2, 3
kennesu
So I was never social in HS anyways and thought college would make it easier.

It sort of did but now my only social comfort zone is my korean church.

I say I've forgotten how to make friends because I spend my week at school pretty much just going to classes and keeping to myself.

I knew I had gone overboard when I started to eat my meals by myself with my nose buried in a book. Previously, I at least tried to eat with other people.

Oh, and today I watched a movie by myself.

I don't think I'm repulsively nerdy or a mutant asian with extra vestigial arms or anything.

I used to be pretty chubby though so that accounts for some of my lack of confidence...

It's my fourth year in college. I have improved a lot in all aspects but...making friends is just difficult.

[dang, i just feel like i hopped a ride on the pity wagon...^^;]

erm...this is not me. let's just say it's a friend. hahahahahaha.... sad.gif
rahrah
lolz~ its okay, i think i forgot how to make friends too... i just blurt whatevers on my mind, and forget if what i say will offend people or not. lately i've been remembering whether something will offend someone or not so its getting better. =D
chriquen
that's more or less me. i'm the type that makes one or two friends, and then they introduce me to thier social circle. but i'm not the one exerting the effort, so making friends has never been my forte. since i don't go out much, my social contact was limited to classmates. i think what i would do though is try to get to know my classmates better. you know those exercises where the prof tells you to pair off or make groups for some project? that would be a good opportunity to choose group members you think you'd get along with, and make friends. or you know those extracurricular clubs? i would join one and the easy part is you would have already have one thing in common with other people there.

to be honest though, sometimes i think that the loner characteristic is just who i am, and there's no reason why i should have to change myself to make friends. but that could be my pride speaking..
tongue.gif
xkrndreamer
Maybe because you're not trying. Speak up more and it doesn't hurt to ask a classmate to hang out.
JF21©
lol do what i do..even tho i'm pretty shy..i just start talking to ppl who look like they're interesting..kinda as if they already are my friends..just that i havent seen them in a long time..most of the time it works..and ppl dont bite..the worst that could happen (in my mind) is they ignore me..then i just walk away..lol it's better to atleast try to approach them than sit there wishing u did... smile.gif

mrs. pakman
i totally know what you mean.
i grew up having the same group of friends my entire life.
the friends i have now are the same ones i've had since i was 5 years old.
now i've moved out to college and i realized that i've lost a lot of my social skills....they're a bit rusty.
but i just put myself out there a little bit.
it's uncomfortable, but it's a great way to meet people and soon you'll find a group of people that you like.
zeram
Yeah same here. I got into that kind of rut Ms. Pakman mentioned where its the same ppl I've known forever. I've forgotten the art of making new friends *sigh*. Its something I've been thinking about lately, not sure what the answer is though as I can be pretty shy sad.gif
morrow94
I remember when my friend told me the exact same thing I lthought it was funny. I come from such a social family I can't fathom feeling uncomfortable talking to someone.

I think it comes down to practice. If you don't use the social part of your brain your going to be rusty. I suggest you get a move on it because it will get harder as you get older especially when it comes to meeting a s/o.
WalkingShade
im in the same position. I just go to work and thats it. im usually too tired to do anything on the weekend so i just zombie out. its kinda sad that ive resorted to this lifestyle but sometimes i also prefer it as well.
incyphe
Be friend with meeeee! I need new friends!
HERMIT
Consider it a blessing.

Making friends can be easy.

But it's when it comes time to getting rid of them that's the tricky part.

babycurious
yeah I'm in pretty much the same spot here...
so I move to this new place and went directly to the 2nd year college.
there's only 70 of us in our year, so all classes are obligatory.
So everyone has known each other pretty well during their 1st year....
i dunno how to start a conversation.....
sometimes I just hear them talking....I want to interact too... but I just got no words comin out my mouth.....sad.gif
Tuffcore
To say you've forgotten is to imply you once did know. You just have to simply reach deep down inside yourself to re-create those sort of actions, emotions, feelings, etc.
watcher
hmm...i wonder if people will buy a 'dummies' book for making friends. or even if one exists...hehehe
HIP2thaHOP
same here .... i use to try to make a whole bunch of friends ... in jr high ... but now that i hit high school i dont feel like really socializing anymore ... i forgot how haha ... but i think its quality over quantity biggrin.gif
awdark
Forgot how to make friends? So have I.

I have resorted to randomly chatting with people and thats really fun. I am slightly... very slightly more comfortable with talking in real life now. But overall, im just online to talk to people to get the social urge out then continue. =\ well I feel 1/1000th of a percent less strange.
SKYARCTIC
A friend in need is a friend indeed.
Nowadays people are too busy so they always focus on themselves, they forget the meaning of a true friend.
I think we don't need a fake friend [ the one who care for you because they have one or others interest ]
A true friend is the one who you can share your dream and if all the people don't believe you he/ she will always suport you whatever you are.
I guess it will be difficult to find that kind of friend. blush.gif
lemoncoke
I feel that as I get older, the less tendency for me to go out and seek friends. I usually hang out with friends that I have known for a LONG time. Although there are times that I wonder why am I still friends with them, but I guess i want the comfort of knowing these people for so long, and they know how I am that I don’t have to go out of the way to win their affection… hmm… sounds sort of bad…. Maybe I NEED to go out and meet friends too!

When I do meet new people, I don’t make the effort to get to know them better. My thinking is: If they like me, fine, if not, that’s fine too!
I guess I am getting old and cynical, and that I am so set in my way, I don’t even try….
wookay
That sounds a bit emo that you don't know how to make friends. Personally, I think that the people that you meet at college are probably not your type. I mean a true friend is what everyone asks for. You might feel a bit weird thinking about that, but if u just make friends with everyone; it feels as if you don't really have anyone to count on and that's the whole purpose of having a friend. A friend is someone you can count on not someone that you can list your problems to. This is based on my opinion, and, of course, you can have different view when it comes to making friends. It's just the matter of how you express who you are to people.
edward1849
QUOTE(wookay @ Nov 16 2006, 12:11 PM) [snapback]4166632[/snapback]

That sounds a bit emo that you don't know how to make friends. Personally, I think that the people that you meet at college are probably not your type. I mean a true friend is what everyone asks for. You might feel a bit weird thinking about that, but if u just make friends with everyone; it feels as if you don't really have anyone to count on and that's the whole purpose of having a friend. A friend is someone you can count on not someone that you can list your problems to. This is based on my opinion, and, of course, you can have different view when it comes to making friends. It's just the matter of how you express who you are to people.


New user should introduce themselves in the pinned thread.
precious4e
Yea I have a hard time meeting new people too because I like to keep to myself. Though I don't find anything wrong with eating by yourself or watching a movie by yourself. I do it all the time. Mostly if you feel awkward talking to someone try to find someone who also looks like they are by themselves and try to strike up a conversation.
melkimx
hey ken, i'll be your friend haha

QUOTE(kennesu @ Nov 14 2006, 07:33 PM) [snapback]4154465[/snapback]

I knew I had gone overboard when I started to eat my meals by myself with my nose buried in a book.

haha is that bad? i do that all the time, seriously. i love to read while i eat.

i believe it's important to maintain a social support circle that can help you with tangible needs (e.g., having someone to drive you to the airport) and emotional issues. but on the other hand i think i'd go crazy living the life some other people seem to lead, going out every single night of the week.
kennesu
it's very reassuring to know that a lot of you out there have had the same difficulties i go through.

usually when i eat by myself i would just have a quick meal and leave but now i sit for almost 45 minutes finishing up a few chapters in a book.
xkiseki
i've also forgotten how to be social. i truly believed college would be the time where i would spread my wings or whatever, but since i ended up commuting, i found it difficult to mingle. plus i have no car and i live far from most people and that makes life even harder sincemy schedule coinsides with the bus schedule.

i've only become more anti-social if anything since high school. this really sucks. i'm 21 and i have like no friends and don't know how to make new ones.

maybe we need to do something different with ourselves

btw, this is also my fourth year of college.
the.elephant
wow a lot of people are like this

and im one of em.
ive been told in hs that your hs friends are not your "real" friends and you meet your "real" friends in college.

but heck, this didnt happen to me.
i got a few friends here but no one i can say my "real" friend
they all seem to have their own circle of friends and im just on the side

and like you i eat alone everyday and i always take it to go
and i do everything myself
sure sometimes it gets lonely and stuff
but i feel like ive been like this my whole life so i got used to it
im an only child and moved 4 times before college hence changing school everytime.
i went to 2 elementary schools and 3 different HS and now im in a out of state college
so my whole life i never really had friends i guess im fine being a loner LOL

oh by the way im a junior in college
awdark
I would have imagined that the moving 4 times would diversify your interests and thoughts and help you be a better and more sociable person adapted to change.
I had my friends from elementary to middle school, few disappeared and many became online buddies during high school, didn't socialize much in high school and only found one real friend there, then in college lets just say that I talked with a few people but they are too distant to even talk to on aim anymore.
ZiGeNX77
QUOTE(the.elephant @ Nov 19 2006, 08:52 PM) [snapback]4194514[/snapback]

ive been told in hs that your hs friends are not your "real" friends and you meet your "real" friends in college.

but heck, this didnt happen to me.


Yeah I agree. You can find real friends anywhere, but some people say this because many move away for college and it naturally happens. You lose some pre-college friends and maintain others, while making (and losing) new friends from college as well.

I haven't made many new friends over the last many years. Since most of my close friends aren't that outgoing it is hard to make new friends. I've met a few people from my college, but don't really hang out with them.
Take Five
QUOTE
ive been told in hs that your hs friends are not your "real" friends and you meet your "real" friends in college.

i can't say i've truly liked any of my college friends lol. i gotta say that the only friends i've felt comfortable with were the ones i made in high school or even earlier than that. it's pretty weird considering this is my 4th year in college now. my social skills have just slowly degraded over the years. it's terrible considering how my parents keep telling me to be more social and how i need to have social skills in the working world and whatnot.

but i feel slightly better that i'm not the only socially inept person out there.
WalkingShade
its comforting to know that many of you are in similiar positions.

what id like to point out is that sometimes we need to stop blaming ourselves. sometimes life or the situation just turns out in a way that makes it hard for you to make friends. its not necessarily cause you're anti-social or whatever.

and the thing bout having less and less friends is that you naturally become more anti-social. its easy to act very friendly and social when you have a large group of friends. but once you find yourself isolated and alone, its hard to act friendly.

i think im at the point in life where its not possible for me to make close friendships but thats ok. i have other things to focus on like my career and helping out my parents. i intend to be productive and make the best out of my situation.

life is tough so you have to be tough as well.
liljewelz
No worries, I've forgotten, too. The only good friends I've made in college were people I knew BEFORE college that I just happened to run into again.
morrow94
It may sound crazy but most of my closest friends all live pretty close to me (e.g. a few blocks from me). The closest friends I made were from my first job and we all kind of moved to the same neighborhood to be close to each other and because the area was cheaper when were in our early 20s.

They drop in for dinner or we go out for drinks in the neighborhood (I live in NYC). Our social interactions have dropped as we get older and have other things to focus on but we still do a lot stuff together like travel, go to museums, attend parties together etc.

I'm not in contact with any of my friends from HS and only in contact with a handful of friends from college. As I get older I have gotten more selective about who I am friends with since I don't have as much time anymore with my career, family and bf to balance. Also as I get older I find my tolerance for annoying people is at an all time low. Life is too short to spend it with people who annoy you.
WalkingShade
QUOTE(morrow94 @ Nov 22 2006, 01:41 PM) [snapback]4213401[/snapback]

It may sound crazy but most of my closest friends all live pretty close to me (e.g. a few blocks from me). The closest friends I made were from my first job and we all kind of moved to the same neighborhood to be close to each other and because the area was cheaper when were in our early 20s.

They drop in for dinner or we go out for drinks in the neighborhood (I live in NYC). Our social interactions have dropped as we get older and have other things to focus on but we still do a lot stuff together like travel, go to museums, attend parties together etc.

I'm not in contact with any of my friends from HS and only in contact with a handful of friends from college. As I get older I have gotten more selective about who I am friends with since I don't have as much time anymore with my career, family and bf to balance. Also as I get older I find my tolerance for annoying people is at an all time low. Life is too short to spend it with people who annoy you.


i feel the same except i don really have a stable group of friends. I just have a few here and there and only on special occassions do I see them.

But I know what you mean when you say you're selective. Even tho I haven't got much friends, the ones I was previously friends with have all pretty much annoyed me to death. I don't know what it is. Maybe its me getting older or whatever but I'm just finding myself more and more intolerant of people. A lot of perspectives and thinking has changed.

You're pretty lucky tho. Usually people tend to have a hard time making close friends after HS and college but for you it seems to be the opposite.
morrow94
QUOTE(WalkingShade @ Nov 22 2006, 04:04 PM) [snapback]4214114[/snapback]

You're pretty lucky tho. Usually people tend to have a hard time making close friends after HS and college but for you it seems to be the opposite.



I'll talk to anyone. I find people in general pretty fascinating to get to know.

In terms of my HS and college friends, either we were never in the same place to begin with and I tolerated them because its not like you have that many options in HS or I outgrew them like in the case with some of my college friends.

My first job was where I finally found people I clicked with. We were all pretty much straight out of college. They were all really hard workers and I respected their intelligence and individual thinking and there is a certain type of people who work in the big city and in publishing (usually well read and liberal). I personally think your early 20s is the first time you choose your friends for who they are because you like being with them. I find the motive for the friendships people have in HS and even college is a lot more suspect, shallow and self serving (e.g. she is pretty, he is athletic, she is popular, he has a car, no one else likes me etc). When your an adult people usually aren't friends unless there is a common interest or a common liking.
WalkingShade
QUOTE(morrow94 @ Nov 22 2006, 04:57 PM) [snapback]4214476[/snapback]

I'll talk to anyone. I find people in general pretty fascinating to get to know.

In terms of my HS and college friends, either we were never in the same place to begin with and I tolerated them because its not like you have that many options in HS or I outgrew them like in the case with some of my college friends.

My first job was where I finally found people I clicked with. We were all pretty much straight out of college. They were all really hard workers and I respected their intelligence and individual thinking and there is a certain type of people who work in the big city and in publishing (usually well read and liberal). I personally think your early 20s is the first time you choose your friends for who they are because you like being with them. I find the motive for the friendships people have in HS and even college is a lot more suspect, shallow and self serving (e.g. she is pretty, he is athletic, she is popular, he has a car, no one else likes me etc). When your an adult people usually aren't friends unless there is a common interest or a common liking.


well you're lucky. People I work with at my company are all pretty much older than me and there's little to talk about. I only pretty much get along with one guy but things aren't so great between us now. Its kinda complicated but he's worked at this company for 2.5 years and I think he felt he was entitled to my job and I've only worked here for less than 6 months. Cause my job is more challenging and i guess prestigious than his. So there's this jealousy thing and I don't know, I guess I'm just not a very good person. I'm definitely not a people person. That's why I'm a software engineer.

I guess your major has a lot to do with who you become friends with. I can imagine in your situation, its easier to work with people more in common with yourself.
morrow94
QUOTE(WalkingShade @ Nov 22 2006, 05:12 PM) [snapback]4214579[/snapback]


I guess your major has a lot to do with who you become friends with. I can imagine in your situation, its easier to work with people more in common with yourself.


I guess I'm lucky but I'm also a girl so women are usually more social in some ways than guys. I remember I when I was a technical PM after my publishing job and I managed programmers and they were pretty anti-social (e.g. program with a towel over their head and their monitor).
B0hemian_Sprite
It's really nice and comforting to me to know that I'm not the only one like that. Usually on Friday/Saturday nights, I'm working, and if I'm not, I end up borrowing a movie and watching it by myself as well. Hehe...I'm getting used to it though...
WalkingShade
QUOTE(morrow94 @ Nov 22 2006, 06:53 PM) [snapback]4215272[/snapback]

I guess I'm lucky but I'm also a girl so women are usually more social in some ways than guys. I remember I when I was a technical PM after my publishing job and I managed programmers and they were pretty anti-social (e.g. program with a towel over their head and their monitor).


i find even if guys arent programmers or doing technical work, they're pretty anti-social. there's a sales department in my company and i think the guys all hate each other or something lol.

QUOTE(Pattie Says @ Nov 22 2006, 07:09 PM) [snapback]4215377[/snapback]

It's really nice and comforting to me to know that I'm not the only one like that. Usually on Friday/Saturday nights, I'm working, and if I'm not, I end up borrowing a movie and watching it by myself as well. Hehe...I'm getting used to it though...


yeh sometimes i feel living this kind of simple life is all i need. im too lazy to go out there being more social or to date, not that i have much opportunities to anyways. but then there are some nights, like tonight, when i feel depressed and wonder what the purpose of my life is.
Aziraphale
QUOTE(kennesu @ Nov 15 2006, 05:33 AM) [snapback]4154465[/snapback]

I knew I had gone overboard when I started to eat my meals by myself with my nose buried in a book. Previously, I at least tried to eat with other people.

Oh, and today I watched a movie by myself.


So I must be an alien or some sort of loser, yes? I eat meals by myself, nose in book, and I enjoy going to the movies alone.

I mean, sometimes we feel the need to have people around us and relax in the company of friends, but just because you're displaying less than what is considered acceptable social behaviour doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. I enjoy the occasional night out with colleagues and friends, but I also value my time alone.

In fact, I resent the implication that just because one eats alone with a book and goes to movies alone means there's something wrong with that person.

Are we so incapable of dealing with solitude?
awdark
QUOTE(Aziraphale @ Nov 23 2006, 10:00 AM) [snapback]4221366[/snapback]

Are we so incapable of dealing with solitude?

Sorta... we're supposed to be very sociable creatures with the few exceptions of hermits who live in unibomber style shacks.
Although we can be isolated now, we're still here on the forums. Truthfully, a crappy form of social activity but still a nice enjoyable one where we get to interact with others. Yeah, there are times where we want to be alone... theres a thread in General Discussion about people who prefer to be alone... but yeah I want to be sociable but im not in real life.
WalkingShade
QUOTE(Aziraphale @ Nov 23 2006, 01:00 PM) [snapback]4221366[/snapback]

So I must be an alien or some sort of loser, yes? I eat meals by myself, nose in book, and I enjoy going to the movies alone.

I mean, sometimes we feel the need to have people around us and relax in the company of friends, but just because you're displaying less than what is considered acceptable social behaviour doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. I enjoy the occasional night out with colleagues and friends, but I also value my time alone.

In fact, I resent the implication that just because one eats alone with a book and goes to movies alone means there's something wrong with that person.

Are we so incapable of dealing with solitude?


i feel the same way. I hate how just cause you go somewhere alone or if you enjoy "geeky" things, people assume you're a social outcast.

Sometimes I feel when peopel go out, they just put on a big show to show everyone else how social they are and how normal they are. People should go out cause they want to.
the.elephant
QUOTE(WalkingShade @ Nov 23 2006, 03:35 PM) [snapback]4222151[/snapback]

Sometimes I feel when peopel go out, they just put on a big show to show everyone else how social they are and how normal they are. People should go out cause they want to.


yea.. i agree with this also

i hate how fake people are and i admit i too act differently when im around people
i sometimes feel like i have to act a certain way with certain people to feel safe but end of the day, i get tired
and i come home and feel depressed even though i just came from a really good party or night out

deep inside i still long for a friend who understands me for who i am ph34r.gif

maybe i do have some degree of depression who knows phew.gif
TaekwonV
I'm finding myself in similar situations these days. Rather than pretend to have fun at a bar or club I'd much rather stay home and play ps2 or watch TV. I'm currently at training for a new job and most of the people in my class insist on being "best" friends and doing everything together.

It is weird to be eating alone but it is much more bearable than the fakeness and/or awkward silence that I've encountered going out with some of the people here. Ever since leaving school 4 years ago I've been pretty much anti social, keeping contact with only a few close friends from HS and College. These days I'm not sure if its the people I find annoying, or if I am in fact anti social. Maybe its both?
Take Five
QUOTE(Aziraphale @ Nov 23 2006, 10:00 AM) [snapback]4221366[/snapback]

So I must be an alien or some sort of loser, yes? I eat meals by myself, nose in book, and I enjoy going to the movies alone.

I mean, sometimes we feel the need to have people around us and relax in the company of friends, but just because you're displaying less than what is considered acceptable social behaviour doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. I enjoy the occasional night out with colleagues and friends, but I also value my time alone.

In fact, I resent the implication that just because one eats alone with a book and goes to movies alone means there's something wrong with that person.

Are we so incapable of dealing with solitude?

i completely agree but there's always a nagging feeling in my head that what i'm doing isn't normal. it really sucks how society implants these standards in you. of course, i don't really do much about fulfilling these standards either.
morrow94
QUOTE(TaekwonV @ Nov 25 2006, 02:31 PM) [snapback]4238199[/snapback]

I'm finding myself in similar situations these days. Rather than pretend to have fun at a bar or club I'd much rather stay home and play ps2 or watch TV. I'm currently at training for a new job and most of the people in my class insist on being "best" friends and doing everything together.

It is weird to be eating alone but it is much more bearable than the fakeness and/or awkward silence that I've encountered going out with some of the people here. Ever since leaving school 4 years ago I've been pretty much anti social, keeping contact with only a few close friends from HS and College. These days I'm not sure if its the people I find annoying, or if I am in fact anti social. Maybe its both?


Thats how I felt in HS like I needed to pretend to like people so I could have a group of people I can call my friends. After college and being older and hopefully wiser (or is it just intolerance?) I just came to the realization that I don't have to spend a minute more than necessary with people who don't interest me.
Going to a bar or club can be really fun with the right people but so is anything like watching the nerumberg trials on TV.

I read an article in the NYT about people who are happier being alone.
chula
i wouldn't necessarily say i've forgotten to make friends ... what's wrong is that i think getting more distant with my friends here in town.

as we all got older, our interests, priorities, views have changed - it sometimes feel that we no longer have much in common.

the close friends i consider right now are mostly people i met online ... through blogs, even soompi.
zeram
QUOTE(WalkingShade @ Nov 22 2006, 05:12 PM) [snapback]4214579[/snapback]

well you're lucky. People I work with at my company are all pretty much older than me and there's little to talk about.



You know I've always been the youngest one around. Youngest in my grade in school and then when I began working. I moved back east and got a new job and thought okay I'm no longer in my 20s. I'll finally be with ppl my age and you know what? Everyone in my job is still older than me! Yes I'm friendly enough with them but theres not much in common besides friendly office chatter. It's really weird I thought when I hit 30 I would be on safer ground blink.gif

You know the whole making "real friends" in college thing I think depends alot on the kind of college you went to. I went to a commuter college in NY. Alot of working ppl who basically showed up for class and left immediately afterward. No hanging out involved so it was hard to get to know ppl there. Looking back I wish I would have gone away to school maybe it would have forced me to interact more with my classmates since we would have been around each other more than in a commuter college.
hasnah14
I have not been making new friends lately. Not sure if I have lost the skill to make friends ..?? Like many of you here, I too prefer my own company, doing stuff on my own..my current friends are my colleagues.

I've read this book on the art of mingling. can't remember who's the author but she advised, if you are out socialising, go over to the person who looks lost and strike a conversation. Who knows, you might gain a new friend!

uhhuh_5
What's really weird for me is that I've actually gotten more shy and reserved now that I'm older. When I was in high school and even the begining of college I was a lot more outgoing and sociable. I guess I've developed more insecurities about myself by comparing myself to others, which is something I'm trying hard to stop. I've also been through experiences that left me not willing to invest myself in others too much. All this has hindered me in opening up and just being myself around other people, which has not helped in developing new friendships. I'm actually unemployed and have already graduated college so I also don't have many opportunities in getting to meet new people. And I'm not the type to just strike up conversations with strangers. I have a few close friends and need my alone time but I really do enjoy getting to know new people. I just wish I could show the side of my personality my friends and family get to see.
uhhuh_5
QUOTE(the.elephant @ Nov 24 2006, 06:01 PM) [snapback]4230597[/snapback]

yea.. i agree with this also

i hate how fake people are and i admit i too act differently when im around people
i sometimes feel like i have to act a certain way with certain people to feel safe but end of the day, i get tired
and i come home and feel depressed even though i just came from a really good party or night out

deep inside i still long for a friend who understands me for who i am ph34r.gif

maybe i do have some degree of depression who knows phew.gif



I feel you. : ) You can hang out and have a good time with lots of friends but when it's on a surperficial level it leaves you feeling so unfulfilled and empty. But, connecting with someone who accepts you for everthing you are and is willing to stick by you during serious and difficult times is something I'm sure everyone desires.
PaNgIeE
We should all get together for a gathering since its so hard to make friends. I swear....its like you ppl are my only friends! wink.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.